Chubb safe

[oldlock]

Also yes, S&G Vault Lock, Glass plate and Pretty Thick walls/doors. The dial is removable but I wouldn't recommend drilling.
I have manipulated one and drilled another that had 2 locks on it. Same safe though.

I'll defer to your knowledge of local products with an observation :

Every S&G vault lock I've worked on has had contact points so soft what it was dammed hard for an experienced operator to state exactly where they are tactilely. Also give it's just labeled Chubb, not any of the earlier names do you not think it could be a 6700 series ?

[williamjcoates]

Hi Oldlock,
I don't know that much about locks. Just getting into this, but It sure would be nice to deal with a 6700. I do know that it does have four wheels though.

[williamjcoates]

Hi all,
Just wanted to update on how the manipulation is going and hopefully get some feed back on the results.
I did four graphs tonight. all of them were AWL. On the last graph I zoomed in on 3 hot spots and graphed every point instead of using the normal 2.5 spacing. these points were 40 - 50, 55 - 65 and 70 - 80


I was having a hard time picking up the LCP as it was so soft. but now I believe the contact point range to be from 4.75 to 13 which is a bit wider than what I previously thought. I am inclined to believe that there is a gate at 73 - 76 and a possible gate at 60 - 65.

Hope you spinners out there will have a good look and let me know what ya think

[williamjcoates]

Hi guys,
I haven't posted on here in a bit but that doesn't mean I haven't been working away on this lock. I incorporated the use of a vernier scale marked at 1/10 increments along with a home made audio device(works so so). I will post pics of the graphs later. However I do have a question concerning the graph results I am getting. I have noticed that in my graphs that the RCP shows very minimal movement, sticking around 12.6 - 13. This is very consistent through all my latest graphs. I looked at a pick of femurat's s&g vault lock he posted on the board here and looked closely at the lever. Because of the shape of the shape oh the nose I don't the RCP on his lock would very much at all like mine. Is it possible to tell the model of a lock based on a RCP indication. Also with mine I find the LCP very tough to pick up which also looks like it would be difficult to pick up in femurat's lock as well based on the nose. Shape. The final observation I have is how the lever in my lock behaves when I make contact. There is very little resistance and I can hear the nose/fence make contact with the wheel pack when I move the drive cam back quickly. In otherwards I can hear a double click when I initially touch the contact point lift the lever and move away letting it drop back on the wheel pack quickly. I also believe that due to the very lite sensitivity of the LCP. It must also be a gravity fed fence/lever I am dealing with. Does anyone have thoughts on what I just wrote? Would love to hear them.

[williamjcoates]

Here are a couple of pics of the graphing I did yesterday. The first graph was the result of using the vernier scale and my homemade hearing aid.

LOt of ups and downs I know.
I took the three high points I noticed at 24-34, 62-68, and 90-94 and I graphed them again using a 1 increment.

I am going to look into these high points and also do a AWR graph. As messy as this may look I think I am getting close to taming this beast. Not going to give up at any rate.

[femurat]

If you're talking about this lock of mine, yours is completely different!

Good luck

[williamjcoates]

Hi Femurat,
Thanks for the reply. Ya I was referring to your lock lol. How would mine be completely different if you don't mind me asking?

[Oldfast]

I wish I had something helpful to add here Bill.

I'm not familiar with the make/model of lock your spinning here.
And your graphs - there's just so much going on. I just dunno.

Guess I just wanna let ya know I AM following along closely
and enjoying it too. Certainly will add something if/when I can.

[femurat]

Hi Femurat,
Thanks for the reply. Ya I was referring to your lock lol. How would mine be completely different if you don't mind me asking?

Dunno, I saw the dial and thought it was an 8500. Today I reread all the replies and saw that the dial can't be pushed in at zero, so ignore my previous post. It actually could be a lock like mine.
If so, manipulating it would not be easy. My lock has a lot of play, probably due to wear. All this play between the parts doesn't help me manipulating. It's difficult to read consistently when everything moves.
A tip I can give you is to pull (or push, it doesn't matter as long as you always do the same) the dial before reading the contact points. This helps getting consistent readings.

Good luck

edit: looking at your latest graph, you have a gate at 29!

[williamjcoates]

Thanks for the info Femurat & Oldfast. I am going to graph this bugger one more time AWL and once AWR and see what I see. I will also hold the knob in tight when doing this as there is a tiny bit of slop. I still think the variation of movement on the graphs is more due to my inexperience than to any trickery of the lock. I also think there might be a gate at 29 but will see what the next results bring. I've got lots of time to figure this out. Safe isn't going anywhere I will keep you posted on my results.
Bill
Forgot to mention one thing......From what I have learned so far...Every make and model of lock graphs differently showing the contact points differently. Would it not be possible that same lock types would graph similar showing the same drive cam gaps, minus the slight variance for off center wheel packs, loose internals...etc? If this was so, couldn't you take your graph of an unknown lock and compare it with graphs from known locks to identify the lock you have? Roughly that is. I thought it might be cool to have a section on here of all know graph results that you could research like a fingerprint data base...lol I know ,,probably blowing smoke out my butt here. Just thinking aloud.

[femurat]

What you say is not wrong, in fact I say there's a gate at 29 because the graph shows a "gate signature" _ _ _- - -_ _ _

Also, there's a theory by Altashot, that we've somewhat confirmed, about the shape of a specific brand wheels, LaGard IIRC, that may help you find the gate area just by finding the high spot on the wheel and then subtracting 50 increments or something similar.

That said, I doubt such a database can be created. Even if every wheel of a specific brand had exactly the same shape, there are too many variables to make it work. For example how wheels mask each other, due to the respective position.

Cheers

[torontosafecracker]

Wow, nice progression.
You're doing great man, quite the lock to learn on.

I would put money down that it is not a 8500, or any 6700 series lock.. But much more likely a 6500 series. Group 2, 4 wheel.
You're on the right track. Keep us posted!

[torontosafecracker]

Also, Oldlock. I've seen locksmiths pick up locks and not be able to feel the CP after 2 days of trying (in a classroom) and I've had newbs pick up a lock off my table at home and say, whats that clicking at 9?

[williamjcoates]

Hi Torontosafecracker,
Thanks.......Yup i'm going to keep at it till the bolt clicks back. Now if i were doing this for a profession i might starve, but for the entertainment value...I love it. Was even tossing around the idea of taking a course. Always figure you are never too old to learn something new. Do you know of any schools in the area?

[femurat]

My lock has contact points at 12.5 and 17. Hope this helps