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The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:30 am
by Topy
Hello all.

I've recently become interested in the Chatwood Milner/Chubb Manifoil series of locks. I've already got several in my collection and I'm trying to search for _any_ information at all about the possibility of a Mark 5, Mark 6 or Mark 7 Manifoil existing or ever having been produced.
For those that are maybe not so familiar, the Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 3, Mark 4 and Mark 8 Manifoils all existed at some point and examples are floating about, but i've not been able to find any information about the others.

I'm not sure if Chubb did a Microsoft Windows thing and decided to skip some numbers 'for teh lulz' or if they've just never been released to the public.

The only other theory is that perhaps they were never widely installed similar to how the X-08 is a lot less common than the X-09/X-07's are because of some hardware issues.

If anyone has photos of the housings and internals of any of the Mark 1 or Mark 2 manifoils out there, please feel free to add those to this thread too. As I understand it, there might have been different versions of Mark 2's out there.

Cheers! :safedial:

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:38 am
by safecracker33
Never heard of a mk6, the original milner prototypes were standard combination body size and shape rather than round, I was told that the mk7 sometimes called the severn, was too expensive and never really took off, a lot of them were dumped in the foundations of one of the woden road buildings and concreted over, sacrilege. There were I believe mk4a, mk5, mk5r, mk7 and mk8 models and other exotic stuff like mk x, thames, avon, Mersey etc. Chubb did a 7l64 4 wheel with roller nose replacement in what we think of as a manifoil footprint as well.
I think a lot of the exotic stuff you would probably only see if you were government employed.

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:16 am
by Nothing else matters
Is the Severn the version with clear dial ??

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:03 pm
by safecracker33
The ones I have seen all had clear dials, but don't know if that was standard or not.

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:36 am
by MartinHewitt
This collection has a pre-Mk (Merlin), a Mk I, Mk II, Mk IV and Mk V. Little photos are in the catalogue PDF.
https://www.locksmiths.co.uk/public/abo ... tage-room/

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:00 am
by MartinHewitt

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:16 am
by Nothing else matters
Be careful finding pictures of mk8 locks and posting them on forums and social media. The reason for not finding many anywhere is because SSG have restricted any info and anyone who does will be liable to prosecution. They did investigate someone last year who put a mk8 keybox on ebay .

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:23 am
by MartinHewitt
I won't link any material labeled as SECRET, TOP SECRET or similar. If it is not labeled it is public. The SSG (whoever that is) may investigate and punish whoever did disclose secret information to unauthorized persons.

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:20 am
by Nothing else matters
That picture has been on twitter for a long time and I think has been already looked at , SSG are the Security Services Group who look after all the GOV cabinets .
This is the sticker on the side of the new lock boxes
IMG-20170904-WA0000.jpg

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:28 am
by MartinHewitt
So maybe SSG should contact twitter and ask them to remove it? As you seem to be involved in these circles maybe you should inform the SSG?

For me I don't see this sticker to be legally relevant. I am not in UK jurisdiction. I was not briefed by UK secret circles about restricted information. I did not sign anything. I was not told by UK secret circles that this is still restricted information. I was not given by UK secret circles this product. There were two Russian spies at Los Alamos who told the Russians all about the nuclear bomb. I am sure the only people left who do not know how this locks works are all these who don't matter.

Is SSG the former PSA?

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:14 pm
by Nothing else matters
I know you don't know what is restricted and what isn't but that is why I posted the warning to save you from the possible consequences.
I think that picture has been around so long that it has already been looked at.

And PSA evolved into Defence Estates and now the Defence Infrastructure Organisation ( DIO) which SSG are part of.

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:49 am
by GWiens2001
MartinHewitt wrote:I won't link any material labeled as SECRET, TOP SECRET or similar. If it is not labeled it is public. The SSG (whoever that is) may investigate and punish whoever did disclose secret information to unauthorized persons.


+1

Just because a label is placed in a box does not make it legally enforceable. Especially outside of the country in question.

Gordon

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:04 am
by Nothing else matters
GWiens2001 wrote:
MartinHewitt wrote:I won't link any material labeled as SECRET, TOP SECRET or similar. If it is not labeled it is public. The SSG (whoever that is) may investigate and punish whoever did disclose secret information to unauthorized persons.


+1

Just because a label is placed in a box does not make it legally enforceable. Especially outside of the country in question.

Gordon

Was trying to be nice and warn of the possible consequences for posting the wrong images which most people wouldn't even know about , but if you are going to criticise me for doing you do it at your own risk. I don't make the rules just abide by them .

Re: The missing manifoils... 1,2...5,6,7?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:41 am
by GWiens2001
And I appreciate your doing so. But also realize that outside of the UK and its territories, that piece of paper has no legal authority.

Like MH, I would not post government classified info. Especially something classified in the country in which I live. Also a company can put exactly the same paper in the box for any product they sell. A lock company even threatened to file suit against a member here for posting a video of their locking bag being picked if he did not take the video down. He ignored them (aside from telling us all about it). No lawsuit followed.

Gordon