if there are any "secrets" in there about manipulation and remove them.
OK rant on:
I think that would be the death of the forum. When everyone was rushing to keep information secret. The whole point of this forum is to share information. No point in being secretive.
Sharing information and discussing lock are the very reason this whole forum is here.
And consider this: just because someone reads a few lines on how to open a 2M safe lock doesn't mean he/she will be able to open one in a good time under the stress of a crime.
I myself have been shown how to open several safe locks a guy even sat there with me helping me to learn on the process but I still can't open them. And manipulating keyed safe lock is even more so... Reading a description on how to raise the levers in a safe lock won't make anyone a pro. It's not something you read about and then do it in 5 minutes.
It requires a lot of patience and dedication and if a person has both of them there would be no way of stopping him from getting into the restricted parts either. It's impossible to truly verify a person's intents even in person and much more so though the internet.
And let's be honest: how many of you did learn something very useful or interesting here? How would have you liked to miss all those infos just because others are unwilling to share meaningful information. All of us would lose with that. (see this smiley:
) You have started somewhere, people helped you and now that you amassed knowledge saying: "I'm going to keep this to myself" is well.. I'm not sure I'm supposed to use those words here.
(BUT I'm not saying we should help obviously criminal intents. I do agree that we must have some self-censorship, but I believe it should be limited to cases where bad intents are reasonably suspected. I respect that some people made/make the choice of not giving some infos out to the public and I'm well aware of the need to keep some informations secret. I am not to divulge their secrets, it's always up to them to decide it they want to share their findings. I definitely would not like to encourage anyone to divulge any secrets not their own!
It is very important to respect the secret-Keeper's (the secret's original owner's) right to limit the spread of information. It is always his and only his decision who he shares it and that must be observed.
Betraying that trust would be very noxious for everyone and the whole community. Trust is a very scarce commodity (on which this whole thing is based on) in this area and I think it is vital to be a trust-able, dependable person. But it is equally important to trust others.
All what I aim for is that secret-owners might reconsider what are the truly very dangerous informations and what are just the plain old lockie reflexes and the will to maintain the exclusivity of this "club".)
For your reassurance:
These forums have been here for a long time, another one is just having it's 10th birthday. There was no apocalypse caused by the availability of informations.
Although I know a forum with a closed part, I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to advertise it here
.
But you do have to put in some work before you are admitted in. Still as I mentioned a determined person could get in there too. Those who don't have the determination can read 10 pages of manipulation guide but still won't be successful in doing so.
That means new people are limited in access to information. If you are not a long term member here, just starting now you too will have to wait until you gain access.
See it would hinder all of us. And I believe most of us are not criminals. There might be a few black sheep among us but there is no truly reliable way to find them.
Think about computer security: openness helped everyone by assuring that weakpoint were taken care of.
And it's a lot easier to use a malign code than using a pick and opening a decent security lock.
The most dangerous era was the beginning when people didn't even realise they need an antivirus program.
Then even blatant weaknesses stayed in the program because there was few pressure to remove them.
I'm a fierce opponent of security through obscurity. That only provides a feeling of false security to most people and helps problems and weaknesses stay unnoticed. While the real pro criminals can easily abuse those weaknesses. Consumers loose while criminals and manufacturers gain.
Here where I live discussing locks is still considered something of a taboo. Lockies are very secretive and jealous of each other's knowledge (with very few exemptions). This leads to a very bad air and instead of community, cooperation and comradeship it nurtures a cold-war era like distrust and suspicion. Best practices stay hidden and everyone loses.
The result is that most consumers have no F-ing idea how insecure their locks and practices are. Break-ins soar and crime blossoms. Plus for those money minded lockies: noone is willing to spend on quality security solution because they are not aware of the dangers.
(I regularly get asked to recommend an acid-resistant lock. It is very hard to convince them that acid is not the way robbers use to break in. Such misconceptions are so widespread that even manufacturers advertise their products as being "acid safe!"
)
You hurt general security a lot more by keeping a weakness secret than making it widely available to everyone and thus forcing the manufacturer to change it. That "natural selection" will pave the way to better locks and better general security.
That is the right thing to do, have no doubt in that.
In the age of internet where criminals have access to all kind of books and can communicate (and educate each other) freely in all over the word thinking that they will become a pro safe cracker because of you post is self-flattery.
And if they are hardcore criminals when they go to jail they actually pretty much subscribe to a pro's course on how to break in if they want to.
Keeping all the infos secret from the general public is one for the most harmful and backwards practice I know of in the industry.
Keeping the infos for yourself has no real positive side, but it is selfishness. I think those who only want to gather the infos but are unwilling to offer a helping hand to others have no place in this forum.
I understand your fear but please consider the things I have written here and I hope you will see that the fear is unreasonable.
I am very concerned about the public safety but that lead me to the exact opposite conclusion. It is one of the main reasons what lead me to being a lot more open about sharing my limited knowledge.
This is ony my opinion of yourse so don't get insulted.
Rant off.
(
dicey your intentions are fair and honest.
-> +1 on that and I believe you too are well intended Liberty. (an ironic name for that post
) )
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:57 am 
