2nd Solve--LaGard 3330

[flywheel]

Good day,

Success for a second time! A bit more methodical but a lot more time spent graphing. Looking at my results below how would the more experienced dial spinners have approached this problem? Are there any obvious clues that I'm missing or am I drawing incorrect conclusions leading to more work (well yes, but how do I avoid that in the future)? Constructive criticism is always welcome.

Now, with the combination known I can see indicators for each number in the first graph. I wish to better recognize signals from the noise as I continue. If you wish to view the graphs without bias I put the combination below and made it tiny.
L92-R62-L52.5

Thanks for looking and take it easy!

[CPT1911]

Great work, flywheel!

I worked with a 3330 all weekend and can open it very consistently now. This method works well for the sample 3330 I was using, and I would be very interested to see how well it works for you. I don't graph, but the indications I see on my lock are pretty easy to catch without graphing....maybe try this and let me know?? Here's my process:

AWR by 10's: First, I go AWR and note RCP and LCP at 0, 10, 20....90. I pick the most narrow CR (the lowest point on the wheelpack with all the wheels moved together). On my open last night, it was at 10.

By finding a low point in the wheel pack, I am improvng the liklihood that they will not shadow the first gate I come accross.

Next, use the low point. In my case, I set W1 + W2 @ R10, W3 LA. Taking W3 in iso guaruntees that any gate you find belongs to W3 (fingers crossed that W3 reads first!). BTW, even if you are pretty convinced that you have a gate when you see that first dip, search all of W3 because you might find an even better indication. In my lock last night, I had a nice indication at 84 that was three increments wide---GATE!

Then, I leave W1 at the low point, and search W2. So that would be W1 @ L12 (compensating for wheel conversion), W2 RA, W3 @ L84. Another nice gate showed up at 63.

BF W1...L60 - R63 - L84.

Again, I don't graph so I rarely get two gates on one search. For me it makes the most sense to put it together in pieces.

Try this and let me know if it works for you.

On some locks, the LOW you find in the search every 10 numbers may not be low enough to show a gate on W3. Or maybe it IS the gate on W3...

Or maybe W1 or W2 read first...lol, there are a lot of possibilities as you well know! Let me know how this turns out. This was a sub 30 minute open for me last night. Good luck!

[flywheel]

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm giving your method a try. Going by increments of 10 yields a low point at 100. Parked W1+W2 there and graphed W3. Nothing obvious to my eye. The narrowest region is a long stretch between 17-27. Maybe a promising blip on 37? Next I will increase the resolution around those areas and see if anything pops out.

Take it easy...

[CPT1911]

Thanks for trying it! I agree that 35-40 looks really good for W3s gate. Let us know!! Looking forward to the next installment!

I just opened the LaGard 3330 again tonight. I set W1+W2 at a low at 70 and took W3 around left. Nada! Of course, after I recommend this method it didnt work! Lol

Went AWR and found an unmistakable gate at 85. Since I hadnt seen it when W3 was isolated, I put W1+W2 @ R85 and took W3 LA again. This time the gate appeared at 37.

Confirmed W2 owned 85. Game over L22-R85-L37.

[Altashot]

It took me a long time to figure out La Gard.
I found that they give too many clues, too many false leads.
Now I first look for the highest point, when the CP's are the furthest apart.
Then I manipulate very attentively 15 to 45 numbers away from there.
I have found that the gates are often about 90 degrees or about 25 numbers away from the high points, more or less.
If it falls in the forbidden zone, I ignore my theory and go around the dial as usual.
I have had more success opening them since applying this "90*" method.
Like CPT1911, I don't graph either, so I'm not too sure how to read them, but if I understand yours, it seems to hint towards what i'm saying here.

What you think? Am I reading them right?

M.

How does one make "that little circle" that means degree?

[Squelchtone]

How does one make "that little circle" that means degree?

I press Alt + 2 4 8

other ASCII characters here: http://www.theasciicode.com.ar/extended ... e-248.html

360°

[Oldfast]

It took me a long time to figure out La Gard.

Tell me! I STILL don't feel like I have them entirely figured out!
I usually take the same approach that Trevor & flywheel are showing here.
Often works, but I can't say I've necessarily found as much success as others have.

I found that they give too many clues, too many false leads.
Now I first look for the highest point, when the CP's are the furthest apart.
Then I manipulate very attentively 15 to 45 numbers away from there.
I have found that the gates are often about 90 degrees or about 25 numbers away from the high points, more or less.
If it falls in the forbidden zone, I ignore my theory and go around the dial as usual.
I have had more success opening them since applying this "90*" method.

Thank you Altashot. It's VERY exciting to FINALLY hear of another approach. This, obviously
is a method that could come only after experiencing a fair number of locks with shadowing.
I don't know if I completely understand what you speak of here... but I can't wait to try it out!

[CPT1911]

Altashot wrote:
I found that they give too many clues, too many false leads.
Now I first look for the highest point, when the CP's are the furthest apart.
Then I manipulate very attentively 15 to 45 numbers away from there.
I have found that the gates are often about 90 degrees or about 25 numbers away from the high points, more or less.
If it falls in the forbidden zone, I ignore my theory and go around the dial as usual. I have had more success opening them since applying this "90*" method.

Thank you Altashot. It's VERY exciting to FINALLY hear of another approach. This, obviouslyis a method that could come only after experiencing a fair number of locks with shadowing. I don't know if I completely understand what you speak of here... but I can't wait to try it out!

I totally agree, Oldfast! I believe we have all done a good job of thoroughly discussing the fundamentals of manipulation. But guys like Alta can give us awareness of subtle techniques that only come from LOTS of experience. This is the kind of stuff that can take us to the next level! Tell us more, Sir! Thanks, Alta!

[Altashot]

Thanks Squelch for the tip and link.
I didn't know there were so many different things I can't do on my little lap top. Damn...
This only works with the side numeral pad, which I don't have...
I thought I could even make the accents in french words, but no.
Good to know though.

I'll explain my theory in a few days, on another thread.
We'll want images.

M.

[Oldfast]

...I'll explain my theory in a few days, on another thread.
We'll want images....

.....anxiously awaiting

p.s. I've wanted to be able to do a degree sign along with other things too.... don't think I can either : /

[easy-e]

Thanks Squelch for the tip and link.
I didn't know there were so many different things I can't do on my little lap top. Damn...
This only works with the side numeral pad, which I don't have...
I thought I could even make the accents in french words, but no.
Good to know though.

I'll explain my theory in a few days, on another thread.
We'll want images.

M.

I don't have a dedicated number pad on my laptop, but every windows based laptop I've seen you're able to use the number pad by hitting the function key and then NumLock. The numlock on my laptop shares the Scroll Lock key, but it's sometimes one of the F keys. My number keys are 789 (same), UIO = 456, JKL = 123, M = 0. On my laptop I did FN+NumLock then ALT+2+4+8 and it worked. Example: 90°

On subject: I purchased a La Gard from Ebay...not sure what model, but it was cheap. Just waiting for it to arrive so I can play with it and use the great info in this thread.

[flywheel]

Sorry for the delay. I was making plans and life intervened...

What follows is the tale of the stuck wheel.
After using CPT1911's methods to take me through graphing W3 I switched over to Altashot's quarter dial suggestion to find suitable candidates to continue. With W3 graph showing high point at ~62 I magnified the blip at ~37. The low point center was 38 and became my W3 gate candidate. It was time to graph W2 with W1 @ L02 (originally R100) and W3 @ L38. I'm carefully spinning the dial in the hope I'm putting the wheels where they belong. All the while talking to myself, "Spinning cam, pickup wheel 3, now wheel 2, ok back once, now twice to 38. Check points."
I'm looking at the graph and thinking this is telling me nothing! Less than a minute later I'm spinning back to check the CPs and the dial hits an obstruction. What's the matter? Did I dial wrong and also pickup W1? Did something come loose? A range of thoughts, probably lasting only a couple seconds, went through my head. No! The fence had fallen into the open gates. Click. Ha, open. Imagine that, when originally checking the wheel stack in increments of 10 I had found a gate.

I think I now have an approach for this lock:
1. graph wheel stack in increments of 10
2. graph W3 with W1+W2 at low point
3. investigate any promising lows about 25 points away from highest point
4. Leave W1 at original low point, W3 at step 3 low point, and graph W2
5. Use step 3 low for W3, step 4 low point for W2, and brute force W1 in increments of 2 beginning with low spots from step 1

Thanks for the feedback and help! Take care

[GWiens2001]

The random picture above is what flywheel keeps in his safe.

Gordon

[Altashot]

Awesome.
Isn't it weird how it works sometimes?

M.

[Oldfast]

Excellent work flywheel!!

I know I wasn't much help, but I'm kinda learning too yet when it comes to LaGards.

Thanks for sharing. Loved following along... and REALLY love to see a happy ending