Looks like I have a new challenge.

[innerpicked]

Local auctioneer dropped off a safe at our shop to open up, he wanted us just to torch it open, but after giving the option of NDE, that sounded better to him. Especially considering it was from an estate that a bank took over, and is very likely still full of who knows what.

Looks like a run of the mill Gardall, with a 6700 series 3 wheel lock.

Pointer in place, ready to manipulate.

Hmmm... I wonder what that could be?
Looks like manipulation will continue tomorrow.

[flywheel]

6700? It's all but open once you say that.

Looks like you're going to have a real tough time of it too...

[GWiens2001]

Now that looks like fun.

Gordon

[jharveee]

Ok,
It's a new day. Time to get spinning.
I'm still learning. 9 is indicating, So now to do a high-low test to find which wheel its on?
On that safe, the forbidden zone still 0-20?
So 9 must be on wheel 2 or 1?

Thanks for posting, It helps me learn.
x100

[GWiens2001]

Just because a number is in the forbidden zone does not mean that people don't use the number. Ask most people with a safe what the forbidden zone is, and you will get a blank stare.

Gordon

[LockManipulator]

6700? It's all but open once you say that.

Looks like you're going to have a real tough time of it too...

Haha so true! And with such a huge indication too! It'll be open in no time

[webpirate]

I am gonna give you a few tips that always get me through...

1) drag all 3 wheels left and find the lowest point on the wheel. (If no lowest point than pick 20) (this will also open the lock if a default combo of all 3 numbers the same was set. More and more defaults are being set to all 50. 50-50-50)
2) Park your first wheel on the lowest point (Or 20)
3) As if you are dialing in a known combination turn right 3 times to 18 or 16 (where ever it picks up the 2 wheels) and start searching
4) On 6700 series you can pretty much bet that the next low contact point till be on the 3rd wheel...but investigate anyway by dialing this
Lowest point from step 1 - Lowest point from step 3 - Lowest point from step 1 then
Lowest point from step 1 - Lowest point from step 1 - Lowest point from step 3
This will tell you for sure where that number goes....
then the rest you know how to do...
This method will help you bypass the graph paper....

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT FORGET TO INVESTIGATE FOR THE POBBIBILITY OF DOUBLES and 3rd number FORBIDDEN ZONE!!!!! example: 15-15-71 or 15-71-15. Doubles seem to be my nemisis because I keep forgetting to check for it!!

[Mikeh727]

Ok,
It's a new day. Time to get spinning.
I'm still learning. 9 is indicating, So now to do a high-low test to find which wheel its on?
On that safe, the forbidden zone still 0-20?
So 9 must be on wheel 2 or 1?

Thanks for posting, It helps me learn.
x100

Yep, I would say high-low testing at this point and then move on. I wouldn't rule out W3...like Gordon said, the forbidden zone isn't always 'honored'. Also, while most people consider the forbidden zone on 6700 locks to be 0-20, I've found some places on-line that narrow that range down to 4-12. Also, that is based on the lock being splined at 50. If it is splined at 41, the forbidden zone is 90-10, which I assume could also be narrowed down similar to the lock splined at 50.

I'll be honest, I've never seen a lock splined at 41, but if this one were, then 9 may not be in the forbidden zone.

Here's a post where I copied a list of forbidden zones that I found: Forbidden zone list

Good luck and keep us posted!

-Mike

[Mikeh727]

I am gonna give you a few tips that always get me through...

1) drag all 3 wheels left and find the lowest point on the wheel. (If no lowest point than pick 20) (this will also open the lock if a default combo of all 3 numbers the same was set. More and more defaults are being set to all 50. 50-50-50)
2) Park your first wheel on the lowest point (Or 20)
3) As if you are dialing in a known combination turn right 3 times to 18 or 16 (where ever it picks up the 2 wheels) and start searching
4) On 6700 series you can pretty much bet that the next low contact point till be on the 3rd wheel...but investigate anyway by dialing this
Lowest point from step 1 - Lowest point from step 3 - Lowest point from step 1 then
Lowest point from step 1 - Lowest point from step 1 - Lowest point from step 3
This will tell you for sure where that number goes....
then the rest you know how to do...
This method will help you bypass the graph paper....

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT FORGET TO INVESTIGATE FOR THE POBBIBILITY OF DOUBLES and 3rd number FORBIDDEN ZONE!!!!! example: 15-15-71 or 15-71-15. Doubles seem to be my nemisis because I keep forgetting to check for it!!

Hey Webpirate,

Interesting technique. Just to clarify, how do you go about finding that low point when you drag all wheels left? My technique is similar: I go AWR on the 10's (0, 90, 80, etc) to find the low point to park W1 and W2 at and then take just W3 around left, but I like the idea of taking both W2 and W3 around together. I look for the low point point AWR instead of AWL since it is most likely that W3 will indicate first and that is dialed left. That way there is no conversion required if I do find a gate on W3.

I'm going to try taking W2 and W3 around together.

-Mike

[jharveee]

Awhile back I wouldn't have been able to understand any of what you guys are talking about. Now most of it makes sense.(Not 100%).
I love to see and learn how other people go about solving the problem.

[webpirate]

Hey Webpirate,

Interesting technique. Just to clarify, how do you go about finding that low point when you drag all wheels left? My technique is similar: I go AWR on the 10's (0, 90, 80, etc) to find the low point to park W1 and W2 at and then take just W3 around left, but I like the idea of taking both W2 and W3 around together. I look for the low point point AWR instead of AWL since it is most likely that W3 will indicate first and that is dialed left. That way there is no conversion required if I do find a gate on W3.

I'm going to try taking W2 and W3 around together.

-Mike

The reason we want to drag all three wheels to the left is 2 fold.

1) we want to get a full picture of the wheels in our head. You. Can do this by the 5s or 10s if you want. This will show us if there is any point where all 3 wheels share the low point.

2) Some, if not all, locksmiths are now using 20-20-20 type combos when they sell or prepare safes for sale.

So you are doing 2 things at once by dragging all 3 wheels left...

Can anyone back me up on this? Lol

[Mikeh727]

1) we want to get a full picture of the wheels in our head. You. Can do this by the 5s or 10s if you want. This will show us if there is any point where all 3 wheels share the low point.

Yep, and you can get this going AWR as well, correct?

2) Some, if not all, locksmiths are now using 20-20-20 type combos when they sell or prepare safes for sale.

Good point, and a good reason to go AWL since the combo's are almost certainly set with AWL at 20 as opposed to AWR.


Thanks for the clarification!

-Mike

[innerpicked]

No luck opening it today. Isolation tests showed that 09 is on wheel 1. I then proceeded to park w1 at 09, And then graphed w2+w3 AWR, the only depression I found in the graph was in the 50-60 area. Spun W2+W3 without graphing 2 more times, and found 56 to be the deepest depression in the 50-60 area by a 1/3 to 1/2 increment. If I did my isolation test right, 56 is on W2. I then parked w1 at 09, w2 at 56, and then attempted to brute w3. I thin I moved w2 slightly when attempting this, as when I turned w3 CW, I stopped when I lightly touched w2 each time, I suspect that might have might have moved it just enough to screw me up?

[Mikeh727]

No luck opening it today. Isolation tests showed that 09 is on wheel 1. I then proceeded to park w1 at 09, And then graphed w2+w3 AWR, the only depression I found in the graph was in the 50-60 area. Spun W2+W3 without graphing 2 more times, and found 56 to be the deepest depression in the 50-60 area by a 1/3 to 1/2 increment. If I did my isolation test right, 56 is on W2. I then parked w1 at 09, w2 at 56, and then attempted to brute w3. I thin I moved w2 slightly when attempting this, as when I turned w3 CW, I stopped when I lightly touched w2 each time, I suspect that might have might have moved it just enough to screw me up?

You lost me. If you set W1 and W2, then brute forcing W3 should be fairly quick and you shouldn't have to worry about W2 at that point.

Dial W1 to L9. Right to 56 (stopping the third time), then I would start with left 57.5 (stopping the second time). It shouldn't be that close to 56, but that's still where I would start. Once you do that, then back to the opening area with right rotation. If the combo is right it will unlock. If not, just a quick turn back to 60, back to the opening area, then back to 62.5, then the opening area, etc. It should not interfere with W2 at any point.

Unless I'm missing something.

Also, understand that your isolation tests might give you bad feedback. I have a 6700 series that I opened today where high-low testing indicated a number was on the second wheel. I found the third number so tried to BF the first with no luck. So I tried using the number that high low testing determined was on the second wheel as the first number and using BF for wheel 2. That's what opened the lock.

If you are certain that the numbers you are using are correct, then it's possible that the isolation testing gave you bad data. It's happened to me before, so you have to make some guesses as to which wheels the numbers belong to. A little time consuming, but high-low testing isn't always accurate.

Keep up the good work!

-Mike

[innerpicked]

Thanks for the advice. I am pretty confident about what wheels are indicating, but ill redo isolation tests tomorrow. I will try brute forcing w3 again, this time going by increments of 2. I also was not as focused as I could have been earlier when attempting the brute force. I realized my think that I was bumping w2 incorrect, after I looked at my mounted sg6725.