Help needed with Masterlock 6835

[WarrenC]

I just received a few used Masterlock 6835's and am having a really difficult time with them. They are my first foray into security pins and after spending hours with them, I am having no luck in picking them. I understand that pin 5 is a serrated pin and logically speaking, this should be the first binding one, but its not. Pin 1 binds first and then 2 or 3, followed by 5. So my process is to pick down the stack until I get a click and get to #5. It sometimes goes into a false set, sometimes not, so back to the first 4 pins, again picking until I get a click and false set, back to check # 5, kinda like chasing my tail. I never get a counter rotation and most of the time, my pins get jammed relatively quickly, with no movement. I've tried TOK, BOK, very light tension all the way into heavy. I can't get the lock to behave like all the instructional videos out there, where they show it getting into false and then finding the counter rotation. Any suggestions?

[MartinHewitt]

When I want to learn about a lock I always search for youtube videos. There many about the 6835. This is an old one from LPL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bz0fjJKiBQ His lock also binds first 1, then 2. He gets the lock open quite quickly, but basically his lock behaves very similar to yours. My suggestion is to have a look at a few of these videos. There are at least 10 more videos about the 6835.

[WarrenC]

I've already watched them all. If I remember right, all of them have a counter rotation, and I can't seem to get to that stage.

[andrew_r]

I'm having the same problem with the similar Abus 72/40. I get to the point where most or all of the pins are bound (sometimes one or two are still springy), but I can't feel counter-rotation from any of the pins, even under very light tension, so I don't know how to proceed. So you're not alone

[MartinHewitt]

Thanks. I bought a 72/40 because they are hanging on all bridges. I can get it open, but really not reliably. Picking starts well, but often it gets sour at some point. There is a pin in the middle rather deep. I think that is one of the sources of my problem. Perhaps I overset also some pins. The counter rotation is very noticeable with this lock. When the core is in a false set and turned a bit, try to use the hook as a lever resting with the bent part on the ceiling (European) / floor (US) in the middle of the keyway. You can put that way a lot of force on the pin (of course here only the stacks with spool). Either nothing happens or you can feel the tensioner pressing back on your finger. If you release tension force the core will turn back.

[andrew_r]

Thanks MH, I'll try that as soon as I get it back together! (I gutted it, not realizing that I would need pinning tweezers to put it back together - these are now on the way!)

[madsamurai]

I understand that pin 5 is a serrated pin and logically speaking, this should be the first binding one, but its not.

In my experience, whenever you start with an assumption about what should happen in any lock, you're going to be frustrated... Just because it's a serrated pin doesn't mean it will bind first, or just because many of the same lock bind pin 5 first doesn't mean they all will. Every lock is a little different depending on how sharp the drill bit was that day or a dozen other things. If you're looking for something you *think* should happen, you might be missing what the lock is giving you.
The only pins that will (mostly) reliably give you counter rotation will be spools... I never (or rarely, anyhow) feel it from serrated pins. Sometimes a lock will stick in a particular serration and feel hard set when it's not, so once you get into that false set where you say everything feels solid, reduce tension as much as you can and see if you can get another click on that serrated pin. Also since you're learning and you have the lock apart, you can cheat a little and notate which pins are what kind (spool, serrated, straight, etc) and that will help you learn what they each feel like when picking.
I have a master LOTO lock, not the 6835 but the plastic one that will fall into a deep false set and completely bind up if I pick it in the wrong order, which could also be what you're seeing from the sound of it. With that lock, if it gets to that spot you're buggered and can only drop the pins and start over, picking in a different order where possible - sometimes more than one pin will feel like it's binding, take the less obvious one first instead. Try picking in a different order, front to back instead of back to front, or notate the last pin you touched before it binds up and avoid that pin until last.

The Abus 72 is one of my favorites to pick... it's always a challenge and I've been picking the same one for three years. Remember it's 6 pins, so if you're counting back 5 you're missing one. I typically use a longer hook for it (and thinner, .018) and that tends to work better. Some days I get it quick and others I can't get it at all. Very easy bypass available on that lock... but I digress. Same applies as above, those serrated ones will fool ya.

A really good practice lock for learning feedback, imo, is the Master 570. That was my entry into multiple security pins and I learned a lot from that lock early on.

Don't let yourself get frustrated, you'll just make things harder as you tense up. Good luck

[MartinHewitt]

A few more suggestions:
1) Perhaps you do not have a good pick for this lock. I had an ABUS with a tight key ways and didn't get it open until I thinned and smoothed the pick.
2) Perhaps you are oversetting a pin. Feel for a pin sitting tight in a low (EU)/high (US) position.
3) Generally feel around for stuck pins and other feedback.
4) Pick, pick and pick

I can get now my 72/40 open quite reliably due to items 2, 3 and 4.

[edocdab]

My GeGe, full of high quality serrated pins, was in my naughty bucket for quite a while. I learned a very useful thing from it: there is a very subtle but noticable difference between a set pin and one that is stuck in a serration or other type of false set (at least, for most locks in my experience).

I tried to search for counter rotation but that would often feel equal between an overset and picking out of a serration. The GeGe is full of serrated pins so you won't be able to open it if you cannot tell the difference.

However, a pin that is stuck in a serration and is binding, typically feels solid. Basically hard like the warding. A set pin typically feels just ever so slightly springy. Maybe just a 10th of a millimeter, but you can normally feel it. So i wobble the pin a bit, push it just a little to check if I feel that brief springiness and, based on the feedback, I set it or leave it alone. In case of doubt, I move to other pins to check.

That's maybe the most useful thing I found out picking locks. I pick locks european style normally, with the bible down, but you can feel it also when the bible is above the core. You just have to first push the key pin up and then do the test I described. It made a world of difference for me and often now I simply know what is going on inside the lock by feeling it in this way.

A second method that LPL uses is the difference in sound. That works for me too, but not always as reliable for me. Probably because I still have to learn something more, as LPL picks really well A pin that gets set sounds sharper and brighter normally than one that ends up in a serration.