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Need a little help with a lock

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sed8ted

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Post Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:39 pm

Need a little help with a lock

Hello I've purchased a new lock to try, which is a master lock #140. after 3 days of pissing around with it, trying to single pin pick it, I've gotten it 3 times. I am looking to learn how to do lock picking, and I do have a 32 piece Klom pick set. I"m using a short hook, but can't get the pins to set correctly.

A friend gave me a master lock that had 1 spool pin in it... which after I figured out how to bypass it, the lock becomes very easy to do.

I'm pretty sure the 140 has 1 serrated pin in it. So any advice would be helpful.


Thank you in advance.
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sed8ted

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Post Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Need a little help with a lock

oh yeah, I forgot to mention, that per day I dedicate at least 1 hour to 2 hours of time to learning lock picking.


Thanks
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LocksmithArmy

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Post Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:19 pm

Re: Need a little help with a lock

The master 140 has 1 mushroom pin in the 3rd position... after you pick 1, 2, and 4, just rais 3 till you get a false set... which will rotate the plug about 15 degrees then push on the 3rd pin more till it pushes back on your tensor...(its and odd feeling if you are not used to it)
then slowley SLOWLEY release tension till it sets... then its open yay

if its not then read a bit here
http://www.locksmitharmy.com/locks.php
for a review on the 140 (and other locks)
and
http://www.locksmitharmy.com/advanced-lock-picking-111.php
for a bit on picking security pins

feel free to brows the rest to learn all there is :)
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Solomon

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Post Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:48 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

LSA knocked it on the head, they have one mushroom and it's always the third pin. Let us know how you get on!
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sed8ted

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Post Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:45 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

thanks, I will try my best. I do plan on taking some courses next year, and I have found someone who will take me on for the 3 year appreticeship, so if everything goes as planned I'll be a locksmith in training next year. Yeah me!
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sed8ted

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Post Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:49 pm

Re: Need a little help with a lock

ok, these lock is frustrating the hell outta me, I'm not sure if it's because I'm such a noob, or this is just a bitch lock? I don't know if I'm using the correct pick for the job either. After working at it each day and night for about 30 minutes each, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, I'm going to try and make a small video and upload it to youtube... or something... I'm actually imbarressed to do this sort of thing on camera. I do have a Klom 32 piece set, so I know its not the tools that's the issue, it 's the person behind the tools that's the issue.


if anybody is familiure with the klom set, I'm using the following pick #5 which has more curve to it then anything.


any additional help would be great, also when a pin sets, should you hear a click? or is that the pins resetting again??


Thanks in advance.

sorry for being such a noob.
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Riff

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Post Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Need a little help with a lock

I'm working on that one too bro. I've SPP it once. The hardest time I'm having is with the restrictive keyway. It's kinda awkward if you arent used to it. I just made a post about the 140. Locksmitharmy was a big help and he has a very informative site. Check out this post
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2135
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Solomon

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Post Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:23 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

One thing to keep in mind is that regular pins will always set before security pins. Since this lock only has one mushroom, it means once you get a false set the lock is basically picked... just get that pin set correctly and the lock will pop open. Don't try to avoid false sets by using extra light tension... the spring return will make that a pain in the ass.

Can we see the bitting on the key, maybe with the hook you're using beside it? I don't have much experience with masters but if yours has the same profile as the #3 and the #40 then it'll be tricky to get larger hooks in there. If it has a crazy bitting then something with a sharper hook at the end would be a wise choice, but in all honesty you should be able to get around any kind of bitting master has to offer with top of keyway tension and a short hook.

I will now tell you a story. When I was first starting out, people told me about how you only need a couple of picks and I was like "no way cos this lock just won't open, I need a different pick". I actually got to the point where I gave up altogether and my picks sat away in hiding for years before I got them out again. That happened twice! I started again about a year ago, and have done a LOT of reading since then aswell as asking tons of qestions just like you're doing. Long story short, you're gonna get that lock open.

I have an abus 65/40 with a really tight keyway and a complete nightmare of a bitting; if a short hook can get around that then it'll deal with anything master can throw at you. Yes, sometimes there is the perfect pick for that one lock and it makes your job much easier. But I want you to get that short hook out, run it down the side of the key and imagine it's in the lock. If you can get at all the pins without disturbing the others against that key, then you can do it in the lock. If it doesn't look so good against the key, find the one you like and get it in there. Get it to false set, deal with it and get that bitch open. :mrgreen:

If you're picking for an hour, take some time out and do some reading. Try different techniques, different ways of holding the pick etc. Don't let your fingers get tired either... I can remember spending up to an hour at a time with one particular lock, and my fingers were shaking. If your fingers get sore or start to shake like that, take a break.

Don't keep switching picks while working on that lock either, find one you like and stick with it. That's a mistake I made, switching picks every 10 seconds... didn't help one bit. You need to sit with one pick and work out the technique for that lock. Pay attention to what it's doing and pretty soon you'll be opening it in under a minute every time, asking yourself what all the fuss was about. :mrgreen:
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LocksmithArmy

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Post Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:24 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

Solomon wrote:
Don't keep switching picks while working on that lock either, find one you like and stick with it. That's a mistake I made, switching picks every 10 seconds... didn't help one bit. You need to sit with one pick and work out the technique for that lock. Pay attention to what it's doing and pretty soon you'll be opening it in under a minute every time, asking yourself what all the fuss was about. :mrgreen:


a little more on this

dont switch picks every 10 seconds sure but thats not to say every lock can be picked using one pick... and i dont mean this in the obvious sence. i mean some locks may actually need 2 picks. you may need to set all the pins with a shallow hook but you need a deeper hook for the very back pin. just pay attention to your bitting.

if you cant set the back pins without oversetting the front ones you may need a deeper hook for just that one pin... but unless you are very expierienced this should not be concluded in 10 seconds... as solomon mentiioned

thanks for the mention Riff (Cookie)
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Pokey wrote:"Come and get me, loser! Spankity spankity spankity!"
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sed8ted

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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:48 am

Post Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Need a little help with a lock

ok, I've taking pictures with my blackberry, of the lock in question as well as a close up of the key..

Here is a close the key
[img]<a%20href="http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/sed8ted/?action=view&current=moddedimage.jpg"%20target="_blank"><img%20src="http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/sed8ted/moddedimage.jpg"%20border="0"%20alt="Photobucket"></a>[/img]

and here's a pic of the picks the I tend to use...

[img]<a%20href="http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/sed8ted/?action=view&current=IMG00061-20091030-1925.jpg"%20target="_blank"><img%20src="http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/sed8ted/IMG00061-20091030-1925.jpg"%20border="0"%20alt="Photobucket"></a>[/img]

thanks again to the people for the suggestions thus far, and this here is an image of a master lock that I can get very quickly, feels like a spool pin, I think... but I'm still a noob so I could be wrong.

[img]<a href="http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/sed8ted/?action=view&current=IMG00065-20091030-1931.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/sed8ted/IMG00065-20091030-1931.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[img]
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Riff

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Post Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:46 pm

Re: Need a little help with a lock

Dude, I cant get to your pictures. Why dont you just include them in your post? Go to the bottom of the page, hit browse, then add or upload file. Or something like that. The pictures will then be included on your post. Very easy to do.
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sed8ted

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:48 am

Post Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:25 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

sorry about that, never used photo bucket before, here's the links for the images, click to make them larger. I'm actually quite impressed with the pictures, because that was taken with my blackberry strom (bought it for $125 from a buddy...) not a bad phone, anyways,


http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... dimage.jpg


and here's a pic of the picks the I tend to use...
http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... 0-1925.jpg




thanks again to the people for the suggestions thus far, and this here is an image of a master lock that I can get very quickly, feels like a spool pin, I think... but I'm still a noob so I could be wrong.

http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... 0-1931.jpg
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Solomon

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Location: Northern Ireland

Post Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

sed8ted wrote:ok, I've taking pictures with my blackberry, of the lock in question as well as a close up of the key..

Here is a close the key

Image

and here's a pic of the picks the I tend to use...

Image

thanks again to the people for the suggestions thus far, and this here is an image of a master lock that I can get very quickly, feels like a spool pin, I think... but I'm still a noob so I could be wrong.

Image

Fixed your links. That's a very easy bitting... it's a stair-step pattern with the highest setting pin right at the front, you can get at every pin with a short hook or half diamond with no trouble so your problem could be that you're oversetting that last pin and the others aren't binding. Pin 4 is a very deep cut and if I'm not mistaken it should be pretty much on the shear line at its rest position... so if it actually is the first binding pin and you're oversetting it, that'd explain why you aren't getting anywhere.

Concentrate on lifting the first in as high as you can each time, the second pin a little less high, and just lift the last pin a tiny amount. Be very careful with it, like I said it's practically on the shear line so it'll overset very easily. Once those 3 are set, it will go into false set (pin 3) so you just need to tackle that and the lock will open.
Image
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the lockpickkid

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Post Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:17 am

Re: Need a little help with a lock

WOW, that bitting is a little odd! I never look at the key when I buy a lock to pick! I like to learn how to do it without knowing! That long pin in the back, that's all thats giving you trouble, it isn't the security pin, once you manage to set that rear pin, you will easily set the security!
I have been in the souls of many women, but I always end up on the soles of there shoes.

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