Sidebar info.

[peterparker18]

I am fairly new to the lockpicking community and was wondering first of all how a sidebar works, secondly how to tell if a lock contains a sidebar, and finally how to go about picking a lock with a sidebar.
Thanks!

[Logan]

Thats going to depend on the lock, A lock like a Schlage Primus has finger pins (an extra row of pins) that have to be set to the right hights to allow the sidebar to retract. In a lock like a Medeco the pins rotate to allow the sidebar to retract. So not only do the pins have to be lifted to the right hight they have to be rotated to the proper position as well to open the lock.

Some good specifics http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Categ ... ebar_locks

As for picking, I have no idea I haven't got to sidebars yet. Tho' I should.

[Solomon]

The basic idea of a sidebar is, there is a slot cut into the side of the plug and a shallow groove cut into the shell. The sidebar blocks rotation by blocking that secondary shear line between the plug and shell; it has to retract into the plug for the plug to be able to turn. There are different mechanisms in terms of how the sidebar components are aligned though... most use pins or sliders which only need to be lifted into place, although some require that the pins be lifted and rotated (ie. medeco or schlage primus). When the sidebar pins/sliders are correctly aligned, the grooves or fingers on the sidebar are able to enter the slots/notches in the pins and thus the sidebar can be retracted fully into the plug.

Easiest way to tell if a lock has a sidebar is with the key. A lock with a sidebar will have a slight snap to it when you turn the key, and the plug will snap into place when reset as opposed to turning freely past the rest position. As for picking... depends on the type of sidebar. Picking direction plays a big part, generally speaking the sidebar is on the right so generally speaking, picking CCW will be notably easier. Sometimes you have to set the sidebar first then move to the regular stacks, sometimes you have to alternate. Depends on the lock. Do some reading on ASSA Twin, medeco, schlage primus, EVVA 3KS and the MT5+. (The 3KS is sidebar only, consisting of a sidebar on either side). We have entire sections for this stuff.

[piotr]

Unusual first post and unusual concern for a beginner.

Any accurate generalisation about sidebars will sound glib. The only thing that I can think of that is true of all sidebars (that I know of) is that they consist of a lateral protrusion that extends from the plug into the body of the cylinder and otherwise prevent the plug from turning. The operating key typically permits the sidebar to be retracted into the plug, clearing the shearline. An example to illustrate my point: both BiLock cylinders and Medeco cylinders employ a sidebar but these locks have hardly anything in common and the techniques for defeating them are very different.

Also there is no generic sidebar detection algorithm. Some keys advertise the presence of a sidebar (eg. Schlage Primus) but some don't tell you (eg. BiLock). The only reliable way to know about a sidebar is via prior knowledge of the lock. If you don't know that lock X has a sidebar mechanism and you attempt to pick it is unlikely that the sidebar per se will be your problem -- you have much deeper problems.

[peterparker18]

Thanks for all the info maybe a sidebar is beyond my skill level at the moment but at least now I have a better understanding of how these sorts of locks work!

[rai]

How a side bar works.

if you can't pick it, its working

If you picked it, it failed.

Eh, whats this about CCW solomon? can that help? is there a spinner that can take a plug past top pins and the more likely to set sidebar? show me that video, Im not very knowlegable about plug spinners, only have one I made from a 101 tutorial and never used, don't even know where to find it anymore.

[Solomon]

Eh, whats this about CCW solomon? can that help? is there a spinner that can take a plug past top pins and the more likely to set sidebar? show me that video, Im not very knowlegable about plug spinners, only have one I made from a 101 tutorial and never used, don't even know where to find it anymore.

I can't say for all locks but in the case of medeco, picking CCW will bind the sidebar first and make setting the pins rotationally easier. I found that primus I picked to be easier CCW also, and I've seen a number of ASSA twin videos where they've been picked CCW although it seems 50/50 with those.

As for the plug spinner thing... I wouldn't fancy my chances spinning anything with a sidebar, I've had trouble spinning even regular ASSA locks cos the springs are so strong. You'd need one hell of a strong plug spinner but I'm sure it can be done. It sounds like you're asking about setting pins then using a plug spinner to switch direction and set the sidebar though... it could be my sleep deprivation but is that what you were saying? If so, I doubt you could do that... it'd be a royal pain in the ass. Better to just pick fully in the wrong direction then spin it.

[mastersmith]

What about the grand-daddy of side bar locks, the Briggs & Stratton wafer automotive lock. Used in GM cars starting in 1935. There are still millions of these locks out there. Much like Medeco cam/file cabinet locks, the side bar is the primary (only) means of locking the cylinder. Though unlike Medeco, no pesky pin tumblers to get in the way . Had to toss in my 2 cents!