The "Security" industry needs to be moderated!

[porky]

ok guys

im new to lock picking and all, and after picking a few locks i realised how CRAP the cheaper locks are and even a lot of *expensive* locks....but now I have knowledge on what lock to buy ....

anyways my shop today (2am) was robbed , and they stole $10,000 ......from my safe I paid $1000 for!!!

they chopped it up with an angle grinder , it took them about 5 minutes to open it .......

also they broke open the security door that cost about $1500 , also used an angle grinder to cut it where it locks into the wall!

what a load of BS!!! , the armed response came too late and i gotta take the loss ......unbelievable!

soo my point being , is locks and safes as they are supposed to give us "security" should be regulated and if they fail certain tests should NOT be allowed to go onto sale .....

what u guys think?

[Thedonofdeath]

that really sucks man. yes it should be regulated. or something. just the other day i picked my neighbors front door open and it was literally 3 secs. it was a kwickset but it just popped open. i know they are easy but this one was WAY to easy. its concerning. I mean that lock is on all our front doors. some better then others but still.

[HallisChalmers]

Anything can be broken into - given the right tools, time, money and skill to do so. Locks and safes are there to give YOU the ILLUSION of security.

Underwriters Laboratories http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/ are usually the "go-to" resource for making sure that items meet certain product safety and compliance issues.

But there is no such thing as an unbreakable lock or safe box that I know of - all you can do is make it cumbersome for the thieves to get at your valuables - which means various layers of interwoven deterrent.

Locks, guard dogs, alarms, guns, etc all have to work in combination to deter thievery - but you'll never eliminate it completely.

[porky]

true , but i mean , 5 minutes to get through a security door and a safe? atleast 20 minutes would have been acceptable ...

i just think to myself why did i waste my money installing that stuff in the first place? never helped much

[thelockoutguys]

just because you paid $1000 for a (safe) doesnt mean its a good safe and safes are already rated by u.l. sorry for your loss but i bet youll pay better attention to the rating this time. Make sure you buy from a reputable safe dealer. I guarantee a decent BURGLAR rated safe will cost you a lot more than $1000. For that much i would expect to get a fire rated safe or a low burglar rated safe with no relock devices. What was the brand and rating of your safe ?

[lockinabox]

Well here's the thing, that "safe" you bought was a low end security cabinet/safe-ish metal container. A real safe where you can store something and have a reasonable expectation that it will not be stolen, starts at minimum "C" "rated" (1/2" solid steel body, 1" solid steel door) and goes up to TLTR-60X6 and higher etc... A UL listed TL-15 rated safe would usually be adequate for most needs. However the TL-15 test does not include power saws and the like. That's why I think a TL-30 safe is a good value because it does not cost that much more than a TL-15 safe and it provides an additional 15 minutes of protection from much more intense attack. Also, for the TL-30 test, the UL safe crackers can examine the safe and it's blueprints prior to the test to formulate their attack.

For your door being breached so quickly there is not a hole lot you can do short of installing a vault door (cost can be as low as $1500). Multi-point locks that lock on the bottom and the top of the door in addition to the regular locking side, might be useful and would give the intruders multiple locking points to contend with. Mul-T-Lock and several other companies make these types of locks.

As Hallis said, any lock or security device can eventually be defeated so the most important part of your security plan is the alarm. Should have 2 methods of communication with the alarm company (cellular and land line) to ensure that they cant cut your phone line and disable the alarm. You can do things like installing what we call here a "storm door" which is a flimsy outer door in front of the main door. You can alarm this door so that the alarm will go off when they open it before they even start working on opening the main door. Also, test your alarm system for coverage and make sure you cant just crawl around to bypass the motion sensors. There's hundreds of other tips and tricks and things you can do to increase security.

The important thing is to know what you are buying by asking questions and looking for yourself and not relying on what the salesman says. Maybe you could have known that an angle grinder can cut thin mild steel like butter if you had searched around or asked about that before buying the safe. You pretty much have to do everything for yourself b/c the industry itself is extremely unhelpful and only concerned with selling you whatever they want to at the time. You also need to decide what sort of threat you are going to protect against and plan accordingly with your security purchases. It appears that your security was designed for things like crowbars and other tools like that and not powered cutting tools. There are many different levels of protection each step you go up i.e. a an angle grinder is one thing, but compared to a gas powered saw, it's a butter knife. In short, decide what level and types of theft you want to protect against, and then do your research on what it will take to accomplish that.

This is also where a real security professional and not a salesman is very useful. If they're good, they can evaluate your current setup and desired level of protection and tell you exactly what you need to buy and arrange professional installation and things like that. The hardest part is finding one.

[porky]

@lockinbox & lockout guys


yes I agree with you hundred percent, my point being , is "rubbish" safes should not be sold! , these rating etc only people experianced in the industry know they exist!

soo basically any chinease safe can be sold as a "safe" when they are not safes atall!

they did try and get into the other safe , we had two and there was just scortch marks on it they were not able to breach that one.....they did scratch it though....but ye lesson learnt!

the "threats" that we would expect in the area I am in is angle grinders and crowbars.....soo we will be upgrading our stuff to make them more resistant to this type of threat , although the previos tenants were "hit" like 3x before us ...only been there for 4 months and already broken into , we are a cash business soo we are a sweet target , thank god though they never came in with guns during the day .....noone was hurt atleast

http://www.peninsulasafesdirect.co.za/p ... asp?cat=66 G1B <---------thats the door ...they never broke the door instead they broke the frame of the door or cut the frame out...

[Warder]

I've sold EAGLE safes made in Korea, and I have always heard good comments from anyone who has bought one from me.

[thelockoutguys]

Again Porky, sorry about your loss...Thats gotta be awful. Did You take pictures? The link you posted didnt work

[porky]

nope never took pics hey .....
http://www.peninsulasafesdirect.co.za/products.asp?cat=66 <-------G1B is the door ....the safe was from a department store (kinda like a wallmart store)

[jondoe]

Anything can be broken into - given the right tools, time, money and skill to do so. Locks and safes are there to give YOU the ILLUSION of security.

Underwriters Laboratories http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/ are usually the "go-to" resource for making sure that items meet certain product safety and compliance issues.

But there is no such thing as an unbreakable lock or safe box that I know of - all you can do is make it cumbersome for the thieves to get at your valuables - which means various layers of interwoven deterrent.

Locks, guard dogs, alarms, guns, etc all have to work in combination to deter thievery - but you'll never eliminate it completely.

First of all, I'm sorry you got burglarized. You must be livid. I agree 1000 percent with hallischalmers. Security is layered and locks really do just give the illusion of security. I'm sure you know all about security and all so I won't get on my soapbox. Hopefully you can find a way to recoup your losses. Let us know.

[porky]

naa no way to recoup the losses hey , but will just know infuture , once im done with the place , NOONE will beable to get in , NOONE! anything short of a nuke aint gonna touch my stuff:D

im gonna put a safe in a safe inside a safe!

[porky]

ok got a few pics from the insurance guy , will post them up later....

getting this safe ...

LS-175 Catagory 4 ....

[jondoe]

naa no way to recoup the losses hey , but will just know infuture , once im done with the place , NOONE will beable to get in , NOONE! anything short of a nuke aint gonna touch my stuff:D

im gonna put a safe in a safe inside a safe!

That's music to my ears.