Company complaint?

[darkhorse]

I'd make youre vid private just for people you trust...I dont think its worth the hassle...We had the same problem in the UK a while back so the member just changed the youtube title to "a lock"

[Riyame]

Maybe make it a product review? Add your thoughts in the description? Then they cant really do anyhting.

[Thedonofdeath]

hold on now, this isnt a smear campaign. Its just about picking a lock. If Medeco or assa calls you out are you going to pull your vids? were would it stop. This isn't about one company or one complaint this is about the lock sport and our freedom to post w/e we want as long as we follow current laws and guildelines. he did so and should not have to remove a video because some company is sensitive. I will be very professional in my video and will not do anything different then any other vid. We should not be bullied for picking locks and for informing others about the true "security" of some of these products.

[mister sour]

hold on now, this isnt a smear campaign. Its just about picking a lock. If Medeco or assa calls you out are you going to pull your vids? were would it stop. This isn't about one company or one complaint this is about the lock sport and our freedom to post w/e we want as long as we follow current laws and guildelines. he did so and should not have to remove a video because some company is sensitive. I will be very professional in my video and will not do anything different then any other vid. We should not be bullied for picking locks and for informing others about the true "security" of some of these products.

I was also thinking that they could be upset that they searched their name in Youtube and found a vid that was getting attention because their name was in it.

[Violaetor]

That definately falls under the category of fair use, under the legislation of Review, Criticism, and Teaching.

Keep the video up.

I'm guessing that they are flexing their muscle because you defeated what should pose a challenge with no difficulty.

[m0ose]

My anti-corporation hat is saying keep it up, but my scared citizen hat is saying hide the video to avoid drama. It's a tough situation indeed. I think all that really matters is keeping information free.

[mdc5150]

I'm not so much about going anti-corporate it's just that they do not have a leg to stand on. I think if we all did our own videos on the bag then they will get the message that there are a lot more people with eyes on the situation than just them and Oldfast. If they see that we all can pick the lock and give a little on camera there is nothing they can do about it. Put a note with your written review in the bag, send it along to the next guy to pick, he either signs the review in concurrence or writes his own and passes it along. It could end up getting sent as a written reply to them saying he is not going to take down his product review and neither are we.

[Thedonofdeath]

I just think that they sent a complaint and that was it. I doubt he will ever hear anything. With all the stuff going on right now I just can't sit back and let more people control the internet, this to me is unacceptable.

[Aedalas]

I just think that they sent a complaint and that was it. I doubt he will ever hear anything.

Remember when Subway sent off all those letters telling sandwich shops they couldn't use the word footlong? They probably just hoped that the letter would scare you into taking it down.

Received an email from youtube today in regards to one of my videos.

This may be an issue though. While the company who contacted Youtube likely has no legal way to get you to take it down, it's not up to the law only. Youtube isn't forced by law to host your videos, if they decide it is defamatory or something to MMF then they can just yank it. Ultimately I think MMF is just crying to Youtube hoping that they will pull the video, Youtube always sends out form letters when they receive complaints. You may simply reply to Youtube explaining the situation.

EDIT:Ignore what I had here, got confused and was thinking of copyright rather than trademark.

Others in this thread have been exactly right, check out MacGyver101's link, it really answers everything.

[mister sour]

Well done! That settles it.

[Oldfast]

When I first received this notification, I was more amused than threatened by it. It's almost comical when ya think about it. I mean hell, we've picked everything from toy locks, to bank locks, to government issued military locks used to secure missles and shit... all the while, never getting a single complaint LOL. In fact, it kinda made my night LOL. I mean really, a big corporation takin' notice of little ol' me...haha... how cool is that?! But as much as I'd like to feel like I'm important, the big picture is this; my one little vid is not going to have a negative effect on this company in the least. Which is fine!! That was not my intention anyway. I just love this hobby for what it is to me, and shooting vids just adds another fun aspect to it all. I like to make a vid from time to time... and I love to watch your guys'.

Thanks so much everyone. ALL of your thoughts are well taken and have helped tremendously. My reason for posting the question here was two-fold: One, I've never dealt with this... and I knew you'd all give me some guidance. And two, I think we can all learn from this, along with any future lockpickers who might join the community. For that reason, I'll certainly keep this thread updated as to what (if anything) transpires from it.

@MacGyver101... Your thoughts on this were particularly useful. They seem very sound, educated, and informative. And, left me with a credible link for further research if I choose. Honestly though, I don't feel any further time needs to be spent flippin' through legal lingo.... it's quite apparent to me that I am well within my rights if I choose to leave the video up. If, and I mean IF, I respond to the company... I'd probably even use some of your exact wording if you don't mind.

Also, this video was not intended to be a review... none of my videos are. Many of you here are quite knowledgeable, and provide a great service to the community with your reviews (I elude to this 'service' in my channel description). I however, do not feel qualified. In most cases I lack the overall knowledge to be able to give a fair, just, all-inclusive opinion... and I could possibly do more harm than good by pretending like I know somethin'. You see, I simply pick the lock... I have little to no knowledge of the hardware that surrounds it... and we all know there's many other factors that determine a good/bad rating. In fact, I contsantly get mistaken for a lockSMITH...lol... and I have to tell people I'm a lockPICKER. Big difference. One other thing that we take for granted, that the public does not understand is; just because a lock CAN be picked, does not necessarily reflect the overall quality of that lock, or the product it's on. But that's only because we know that very few (if any) locks in the world are 'un-pickable'.

I'm still not certain on what I will do yet, but here's what I'm leaning towards. For now, I will not respond to the company, and we'll see if they make any further contact. As to the video: one of two things will happen. 1) Leave the original vid up. 2) Shoot another video and post it in addition to the original one.... and leave both up. If I decide to shoot an additional video... they're not going to like that one either. I purchased another one today. So the new vid would consist of picking the same bag from the previous vid, then picking the other straight out of the package. I would do little to no talking in the vid, but might type up a rather lengthy description for it. Their name would still be in the video and I might even have the title bear their name specifically, rather than just 'Deposit Bag' like the original vid was entitled. I'm not doing it to instigate. Certainly, PART of my reasoning is because we have the right to! But MOSTLY because I want to. I took the time to shoot the vid, I like it, and I want it on my channel.

So I did some very brief research today. First, I did a quick search for 'money deposit bag' and 'MMF Industries money bag'... the one (and only) vid that came up was mine lol. Not only was it on the first page, but it was the very first hit. I also took a look at MMF Industries. As to the size of the corporation, I'm really not sure... but they certainly have their foot in the market. It's 50+ yr old company stationed out of Wheeling Illinois, and mainly caters to offices/businesses. In addition to being online and any stores they may have... most of their products are carried by Staples (where I purchased mine). Their product line is relatively small, and deals mostly with security (money bag, cash drawer, key boxes, conterfeit detector, etc.). The remaining products are geared more towards storage/organization.

One last thing- I cannot speak on any of their other products, and as I said, I really don't do reviews... but if I were forced to say one way or the other on their money bag:
All things considered (cost, quality, application, possible scenarios during use, etc.) it's really not all that bad!! If you're simply looking to transport your money from point A to point B with something more than your standard zipper-bag... this is a viable option at a reasonable cost. However, you'll never catch me sayin' that on youtube. LOL

My thoughts on the money bag tour: First off, hahaAAA LMFAO!! As mentioned, right now it's just ONE video... mine. A mental image comes to mind. A beehive hanging from a branch. Dangerous?... somewhat maybe. Throw a rock at it (as they've done) and the situation just got a whole lot worse LOL. Now don't get me wrong when I say I'll have to opt out on this one (in fact I'm still laughing right now!). I think it's a brilliant idea and it'd be alot of fun. Especially considering you could place more locks in the bag as it went along. Go for it!! However, considering my situation and the fact that the company has contacted me personally... I just wouldn't feel right being the one to initiate the tour.
Also, after looking at the company today, and deciding it's not all that bad... I just wonder if it's deserving of more of my time & effort.

Now, if I were to have received this same notice from say, MasterLock... it'd be a totally different story! It would instantly shoot a big dose of enthusiasm directly up my ass. This money hungry, shit producing company seems to bother me more all the time. They continue to amaze me. Just when I think they can't do any worse, they top themselves and release yet another piece of shit. A terrific example is their keysafe lockbox... which I won't even get started on lol. But the straw that broke the camels back is when they started fuckin' with one of my all-time favorites... AmericanLocks. grrrrrrrrrrrrr. Enough said.

Sorry for being so long winded, but this has brought alot of thoughts to mind and not all of them really have anything to do with the situation. The last paragraph was just my little rant for the night. Thanks for all the thoughts guys. And I agree... I really don't think I'll be hearing from them again. But I'll keep you up-to-date. And thanks Andrew for posting the Copyright Disclamer... makes it much easier for me if I do end up needing it.

[Aedalas]

And thanks Andrew for posting the Copyright Disclamer... makes it much easier for me if I do end up needing it.

You're very welcome, but don't use that. I got mixed up somehow, it's not a copyright claim, it is a trademark claim. Here is the quote you want:

Trademark law recognizes a defense where the mark is used only "to describe the goods or services of [a] party, or their geographic origin." 15 U.S.C. Section 1115(b)(4). The fair use defense is available to one who, in good faith, fairly uses another’s trademark in a descriptive sense rather than its trademark sense.

Here is the full section of the trademark act that covers your situation.

Also, I find it pretty funny that while this company obviously has a problem with you showing that the lock can be picked they went with a trademark infringement claim instead of defamation or something. They probably would have had a lot better chances of getting the video pulled had they just asked you nicely, or at least got you to take the name off of it (not that I would suggest you do that now though).

In a semi-related topic, there has been a lot of discussion here lately about losing things in shipping. If you change your mind about initiating a tour, you can easily justify the use of that bag as simply a means to prevent the lock that is being passed around from falling out of a damaged shipping box. It wouldn't be your fault if the people receiving it also happened to pick the lock instead of using the key.

[Oldfast]

You're very welcome, but don't use that. I got mixed up somehow, it's not a copyright claim, it is a trademark claim. Here is the quote you want:

Trademark law recognizes a defense where the mark is used only "to describe the goods or services of [a] party, or their geographic origin." 15 U.S.C. Section 1115(b)(4). The fair use defense is available to one who, in good faith, fairly uses another’s trademark in a descriptive sense rather than its trademark sense.

In a semi-related topic, there has been a lot of discussion here lately about losing things in shipping. If you change your mind about initiating a tour, you can easily justify the use of that bag as simply a means to prevent the lock that is being passed around from falling out of a damaged shipping box. It wouldn't be your fault if the people receiving it also happened to pick the lock instead of using the key.

Ah, ok. Very good. Again... hopefully it doesn't come to that. But it's nice to have it right there at my fingertips if it does. I appreciate that, especially since I'm not so great at finding shit like that. Also, if anyone's interested in one of these money bags... FYI, you'll pay about $29 at Staples. And thanks again to everyone... I really had NO idea how the hell to approach this.

[keymaster1053]

Hey Oldfast,
I completely agree with almost everyone that has chimed in thus far: You didn't use their name or image to make a profit, it was strictly used as an informative means for the public. They have nothing to stand on. Keep it up there, and you prolly won't hear from them again. If that SOPA BS gets passed, then practically every video will be taken down, so let's try and make sure THAT doesn't happen! Let's preserve the rights that we currently have! keep up the good work!
Jim

[Thedonofdeath]

Sopa/Pipa has been shelved for now so we are ok. But it is not over. No government should be able to control something like the internet.