Lockpicking Tool Templates

[piotr]

Does anyone know or suspect that Romstar is still posting on Lockpicking101 or Keypicking under an other alias.

Given that he conceives of himself as an IT expert I'm guessing he has assumed another alias and is visiting (here or lp101) via a proxy. I am also guessing that he believes he is really smart because he has done this. But like MBI stated, the new identity -- if it indeed exists -- is subdued and reticent and this restraint would be most painful for a malignant narcissist like him. For the narcissistic con-artist it's all about the hustle, about duping others and "proving" that you are smarter than your victims. The deception provides the narcissistic supply, it is intrinsically rewarding to the narcissistic flim-flam man. Refer to Rai's account of Romstar/Frank Spencer witholding sending a CD which with shipping would have cost about ~US$2.00 and at most perhaps 15 minutes of time. Why screw someone over this when it is so easy to fulfill your end of the agreement? Because the reward is in the deception itself, that is what provides the narcisstic supply to these sorts of degenerates. This loss of narcissistic supply would be most disruptive and unpleasant unless it is being sourced elsewhere (and I am guessing that it is being sourced elsewhere because it is needed in a similar way that the compulsive gambler needs to gamble). Mr Spencer would have shot his load when the stooges at lp101 bought the sob story and gave him ~US$2000. The deception itself would have been as equally valuable as the cash in the narcissistic supply it would have provided him. My point is that even if he is on here or lp101 he would be most frustrated because he is not scamming and when he is not scamming he is not feeling intellectually superior to others.

If you want some insight into the minds of con-artists with narcissistic traits study the case of Christian Gerhartsreiter (aka Clark Rockefeller, Chris C. Crowe, Chris Chichester, Charles Smith, Chip Smith, Christopher Chichester). This remarkable case inspired both a documentary and book. I've only seen the documentary and that was riveting viewing.

[rai]

I chased down the link someone posted to www.shroomery.com and about three quarters of the page down, you can find a post by infinities minute, which is obviouly that same person who was a 14 yo kid in Australia when romstar conned him,
If the person who posted that has an account at shroomery they should pm him and let him know about this thread on keypicking.
Sorry I don't remember who posted but I only have one window open.

[nozza36]

Romstar is a cunt , end of story , paid him for picks just after i joined here , got fobbed off and i kicked up a stink about it , that led to (or contributed to)
the bastard being banned from this forum , if i ever win the lottery , i'll pay the prick a visit , smash his hands , tear out his eyes and swap them with his nuts ,
then kick them internally back to the proper position !
No , i'm not very keen on him

[piotr]

It's absolutely fair to debate the criteria for joining... but literally every lock-related site that I'm a regular member of (Keypicking, LP101, HistoryOfLocks, antique-padlocks, etc.) has one or more private forums that you have to apply to a moderator for permission to join.

Point taken. In my defence I'd say that DE is a well-defined and specific category and it is not something that a hobbyist can readily use. That cannot be said about "Advanced Locks Information"; that is a thoroughly arbitrary category without any well-accepted or widely used meaning. It is the arbitrary and amorphous nature of the category as well as the membership criteria that troubles me. I have no objection to be assessed according to a set of unambiguous and well-defined objective criteria (and I've subjected myself to the same when I have sought employment in IT facilities that process and store sensitive and/or high-value data). Objective criteria are such things as the absence of a criminal record in any jurisdiction of Australia, the absence of unserviceable financial debt such that it would render a person vulnerable to corruption, the absence of substance or gambling addiction; I have had to satisfy these criteria and did so without complaint. But subjecting myself to someone's subjective assessment and arbitrary will in order to join an ill-defined category of a forum is demeaning and absurd. That someone like Frank Spencer/Romstar was appointed moderator of a forum that is ostensibly selective and exclusive illustrates the absurdity. Frank Spencer demonstrated that there is no real selectivity but merely the pretence of it. If a process is unable to discriminate against someone as unsophisticated and clumsy in their graft as Frank Spencer then it is fatally flawed. But the turn of events is even more tragic than this which raises it to farcical tragedy: he was appointed moderator. No, not just a member of the "Advanced" sub-forums but also a moderator of the forum, which actually facilitated Mr Spencer's scamming activity.

[Aedalas]

That someone like Frank Spencer/Romstar was appointed moderator of a forum that is ostensibly selective and exclusive illustrates the absurdity. Frank Spencer demonstrated that there is no real selectivity but merely the pretence of it. If a process is unable to discriminate against someone as unsophisticated and clumsy in their graft as Frank Spencer then it is fatally flawed. But the turn of events is even more tragic than this which raises it to farcical tragedy: he was appointed moderator. No, not just a member of the "Advanced" sub-forums but also a moderator of the forum, which actually facilitated Mr Spencer's scamming activity.

While I agree with this, being relatively new in the scheme of things here, I have to ask was this his first scam there? That can make a bit of a difference with what you said. "Fool me once" and whatnot.

Not that it makes it okay or anything, it just changes things a little. I'm still against the whole advanced sub and as such will never be a member there myself, it's just I think that there is more to its effectiveness than just "dude joined, appointed mod, was a shitbag, system is borked" to paraphrase slightly. System IS borked though.

[piotr]

While I agree with this, being relatively new in the scheme of things here, I have to ask was this his first scam there? That can make a bit of a difference with what you said. "Fool me once" and whatnot.

Understood. The exact chronology escapes me because it happened many years ago but I do clearly remember him having run multiple scams in distinct clusters. He managed to have at least his first round of scamming forgiven only to repeat it. Further to the point, no actions were taken to prevent or minimise the chances of him re-offending. He is a professional locksmith so I guess his moral purity could be taken at face value

There was no due dilligence by the management of lp101. A simple Google search would have revealed posts from Frank Spencer from as early as 2000 on other fora advertsing himself as (or atleast implying that he was) a theoretical physicist, an IT professional and a jeweller. The early warning signs were there, and they were loud -- but they weren't read. There is a culture of groupthink at lp101 (eg. they call progressive pinning the digital blue method, "digital blue" being the online moniker of the site's founder Josh Nekrep (a 30-something real estate agent) even though PP as a training method is as old as the pin-tumbler itself, but they all just repeat digital blue method, digital blue method, digital blue method without question). It is this culture of groupthink which I believe enables the Frank Spencer's and the Schuyler Towne's.

Not that it makes it okay or anything, it just changes things a little. I'm still against the whole advanced sub and as such will never be a member there myself, it's just I think that there is more to its effectiveness than just "dude joined, appointed mod, was a shitbag, system is borked" to paraphrase slightly. System IS borked though.

It wasn't my intention to imply that the process at lp101 is flawed merely because it elevated a clumsy and oafish con-artist to moderator. It is flawed for a range of reasons some of which I mentioned. Anyway, I'm off to go use the digital blue method, digital blue method, digital blue method, digital blue method....

[Aedalas]

He managed to have at least his first round of scamming forgiven only to repeat it. Further to the point, no actions were taken to prevent or minimise the chances of him re-offending. He is a professional locksmith so I guess his moral purity could be taken at face value

Nuff said. Though the rest IS pretty interesting. Fool me 7 or 8 times...

Not that it makes it okay or anything, it just changes things a little. I'm still against the whole advanced sub and as such will never be a member there myself, it's just I think that there is more to its effectiveness than just "dude joined, appointed mod, was a shitbag, system is borked" to paraphrase slightly. System IS borked though.

It wasn't my intention to imply that the process at lp101 is flawed merely because it elevated a clumsy and oafish con-artist to moderator. It is flawed for a range of reasons some of which I mentioned. Anyway, I'm off to go use the digital blue method, digital blue method, digital blue method, digital blue method....

It wasn't my intention to imply you thought that was the only reason. Sorry about that.

[MacGyver101]

Piotr, it sounds like you personally were given a rough time at LP101... that sucks, and I am honestly sorry to hear that. A bunch of the regular contributors here are members of a number of lockpicking forums, including LP101, and I'd like to hope we can all get along. I love sharing my passion for locks with other hobbyists, and, relative to a lot of other groups, we're not that big a global community: I find these divides really unfortunate.

Romstar hasn't posted anything on LP101 in over half a decade. Web communities change a lot in that amount of time: Keypicking didn't even exist back when Romstar last logged in on LP101 (many of the older community here were members of EZP at the time). I don't think I've ever done anything to offend you, and I'd hope you'd not paint me with a broad brush, based on the actions of some other jerk from six year ago that I don't even know.

I've never witnessed group chanting about the "digital blue method" on LP101. (In truth, I've searched and I can't find even one post that refers to it by that name.) He didn't break any new ground in that particular tutorial, but he did take the time to write a good lesson plan for beginners... and I've pointed people to it myself, in the same way that we encourage people here to check out mdchurchill's videos on Lishi picks, Kokomolock's tutorials on just about everything locksmithing-related, etc., etc.. They're all very good tutorials, and I really appreciate that people took the time to make them, because I've learned something new from all of them. I do understand that names matter, though, and they sometimes can rub people from other groups the wrong way. For example, I automatically think of Matt Blaze whenever I think of the type of attack he described in his "Rights Amplification in Masterkeyed Mechanical Locks" paper... and yet I know that older locksmiths call it "The Dayton Method", after the fellow who'd first popularized it within professional locksmithing circles, and feel that Matt Blaze somehow ripped him off. Everyone has their own community members that they like to recognize for their contributions.

Anyhow... all that aside, I'm not looking to engage in some sort of "us versus them" debate. I'm just respectfully asking to not be cast into some sort of bucket with some other jerk who mistreated you many years ago.

...and, at the end of the day, I suppose none of this has anything to do with lockpicking templates, which is how this thread began.

[piotr]

Piotr, it sounds like you personally were given a rough time at LP101... that sucks, and I am honestly sorry to hear that.

I was not one of the people that was ripped off by Frank Spencer/Romstar. I don't like the guy on principle and I don't like lp101 on principle either.

Romstar hasn't posted anything on LP101 in over half a decade.

I know, so what? This isn't just about Romstar, its about the culture of a forum that enables him and others like him. Remember Schuyler Towne -- the person that pissed away over US$80K. He was also a darling of lp101 so it would have been impossible to criticise him on that forum.

Web communities change a lot in that amount of time: Keypicking didn't even exist back when Romstar last logged in on LP101 (many of the older community here were members of EZP at the time).

It's the same as it ever was because the managment is the same and the ethos is the same.

I don't think I've ever done anything to offend you,

Other than imply that I made up the whole thing about "digital_blue method". No.

and I'd hope you'd not paint me with a broad brush, based on the actions of some other jerk from six year ago that I don't even know.

You've decided to defend the toxic in-group/out-group culture of lp101. You are doing so voluntarily and you are doing so to demonstrate your in-group cohesion -- more groupthink.

I've never witnessed group chanting about the "digital blue method" on LP101. (In truth, I've searched and I can't find even one post that refers to it by that name.)

You not noticing this is another example of groupthink. You don't want to notice it because it would upset in-group cohesion.

A very effective method of learning is what most of us call the digital_blue method. This is a practice method made popular by the admin of Lockpicking101.com that involves picking partially-pinned locks and working up.

Source: http://www.theamazingking.com/lock-spp.php

He didn't break any new ground in that particular tutorial, but he did take the time to write a good lesson plan for beginners...

He just paraphrased the PP exercises in the 2nd edition of Weber's Locks, Safes and Security. The exercises he describes do not represent any form of innovation or extension such that they merit the title "digital_blue method". It's just PP as it has always been known. But no-one dares post on lp101 what I just posted because (a) the forum is pervaded by a sycophantic stench emitted by those that are eager to join the "Adanced Section"; and (b) those that are in the "Advanced Section" fear being cast out, expelled from the in-group so the sycophantry persists even there. In other word because of groupthink. The very same reason no-one criticised Frank Spencer/Romstar or Schuyler Towne.

Further to the point, why do you think that post editing is disabled on lp101? Do you recall the events that led up to the edit button being disabled? I do. It was because departures from the forum were so rancorous and laced with resentment that the departing erased their own posts. How can it be that those that at one point contributed substantive content apparently out of a generosity of spirit then want to take it all back in an angry and destructive rage? This is yet another aspect of in-group/out-group social psychology. The now disenfranchised members were motivated to make their contributions by a desire to gain admittance to the "Advanced Section" (or whatever the fuck it is called). There was no genuine desire to share knowledge or anything that noble. The primary motive was becoming a member of the in-group. When the threat of expulsion appears the tribute that was offered to become a member is withdrawn. For this reason the edit facility was removed. So content deletion in a fit of rage on a lockpicking forum doesn't strike you as odd and dare I say pathological?

and I've pointed people to it myself,

Thereby consolidating the misguided notion that Josh Nekrep made some significant contribution to lockpicking training.

in the same way that we encourage people here to check out mdchurchill's videos on Lishi picks, Kokomolock's tutorials on just about everything locksmithing-related, etc., etc..

But these tutorials don't paraphrase a fundamental of lockpicking and label it "The Kokomolock Method" or the equivalent. Do they?

I do understand that names matter, though, and they sometimes can rub people from other groups the wrong way. For example, I automatically think of Matt Blaze whenever I think of the type of attack he described in his "Rights Amplification in Masterkeyed Mechanical Locks" paper... and yet I know that older locksmiths call it "The Dayton Method", after the fellow who'd first popularized it within professional locksmithing circles, and feel that Matt Blaze somehow ripped him off. Everyone has their own community members that they like to recognize for their contributions.

At the least, Blaze's presentation and analysis was original. No such thing can be said of the "digital_blue method", it's just a moribund description of plain vanilla progressive pinning.

Anyhow... all that aside, I'm not looking to engage in some sort of "us versus them" debate. I'm just respectfully asking to not be cast into some sort of bucket with some other jerk who mistreated you many years ago.

No, you are trying to defend the norms of the in-group to which you belong. You are contending that Frank Spencer was incidental to the culture of lp101; I'm suggesting that Frank Spencer (and all the other odious characters that have passed through lp101) are a product of that culture. As I already stated, I was not one of the unfortunates that was ripped off by Frank Spencer/Romstar. I have no confidence in the judgement or integrity of anyone that moderates/admins lp101. The absence of any criticism of Romstar when he was active and the failure to criticise Schuyler Towne more recently strips the management of lp101 of any moral authority. I also am confident that the next Schuyler Towne is being cultivated and groomed at lp101, in that sterile groupthink atmosphere where everyone leaves their critical faculties at the door.

[MacGyver101]

Well, I guess we should agree to disagree.

Back to the topic at hand: anyone have any interesting pick designs?

[rai]

You can find some interesting templates in the long forgotten Yahoo locksports group in the photos section I think. That is the site where I first started posting on the internet, and there are still some good posts there but they are very old. not one has posted in a long time.
I have a post count at lp101 that is at 7111 and not counting, I started posting here instead, I still am a member there and visit to pick up an occasional pm and answer it.

When lockpick tools was first ripping off my bogota designs, the administrators at lp101 asked me to help them quell a group of people who may have been bothering the lockpicktools people, I know little about what was happening because I was only aware of it when the lp101 admins asked me to help stop it and some implied that it was coming from me, and the conman a certain "buzzy" from some pawn shop in jacksonville florida who was connected to the lockpicktools people and trying to get me to go along with them without ever offering me any adequate compensation was definately lying to me about "negociations".

Recently the people at sparrows lockpicks contacted me and told me that they were going to start making the real bogota designs, all of them, the matched pairs,and pin on device too, they wanted to use my name and permission to use the designs that they already stated they were going to take.
They had already taken my bogota rake and undercut half diamond years before and credited it to wizwazzle, and just to push me into their deal they told me there was a rumor that a "major manufacturer was going to start making these designs," but they wouldn't tell me who that major manufacturere was. The bogota rake and the undercut half diamond have long since been taken without so much as a contact to me by most of the major manufacturers. but Lockpicktools was the first to rip them off and lp101 wanted me to stop people who on their own were protesting. Oddly squelchtone was on my side at that time, but now is hysterically on the side of the ripoffs.

For the record, I encourage you to make your own picks and offer the designs to the community but I do not include the commercial manufacturers in the group. If you want to hand make my designs and sell your hand made tools to others I don't have a problem with that.

But LP101 supports the major manufacturers who rip off my designs and they do not permit me to even post about it.
Before my post count there ended at 7111 posts last month, a number of my posts were squelched.
The idea there is that the people who rip off my designs for commercial manufacture would be "libeled" by my calling them opportunistic parasites, or leeches or lice.
The moderator there absolutely forbid my discussing the implications of this to others who create things such as jaakko fagerlund, jkthecjer, or lauren. I was forbidden to discuss the implications of this to all forums on the internet where creative people share regardless of the topic and to the whole movement of makerspaces or hackerspaces where creative people do new things.
The topic is absolutely verboten.
In the case of sparrows who started that conversation by telling me that they were going to copy the bogota pairs and the implication that by agreeing I would be sharing creative credit with wizwazzle, for my own designs.
Sparrows told me that this was my opportunity to be paid a "onetime payment" for this. They also said that now was the time to jump on board because a "major manufacturer" whom they claim to know all about but won't share that name with me. (conman tactic, a push to scare the naive even if its true, and it can only be called true if that company is named and asked if its true)
They told me that a market exists and now was the time.
I built that market, that is how my stuff is more attractive to opportunistic parasites than the inventions of other creative people I have named.

Its the market that I worked for years to create and in the process gave free picks to many many many people.

All this was not allowed on the lp101 and I stopped posting there. after an exchange of emails with squelchtone in which he got hysterical and invented a lot of false stuff to accuse me of including telling me that I had said things that I simply had not said.

He was afraid of starting a "shitstorm" and said I was libeling whoever. Libel is a legal term for false characterization that causes material damage to someone. Truth is not libel and there is no right to profit by someone elses work that can be legally defended under libel law. Many lawyers will write threatening letters to people whom they want to shut up but few will file actual charges and only a small fraction of those who do file libel cases win them, Years ago when I was young I studied mass communications, journalism public relations, radio and TV broadcasting, and advertizing at the University of Wisconsin at La Crosse, and libel was one of the topics covered.
Squechtone thinks libel is hearing anything he doesnt want to agree with.
I am stil a member at lp101, I do not post there anymore. I just look at it and sometimes answer pms, but if you want to pm me, do it here.

Ray

[abroxis]

Lockpicking101.com has many wonderful users but some of the politics and the way things are done never cease to amaze me and many others.

As a long time member at lp101 I have seen a lot of knowledgeable people quit sharing their knowledge and the locksports community has been the loser
in the end.

I also believe this site would not be what it is today if they hadn't driven so many users here. Their loss is our gain.

Rai or Raimundo is but one of the most recent lp101ers to share with us.

Rai, rest assured that many of your fans believe that you have been major shafted on your pick designs and stabbed in the back by a site that you contributed so much to.

Whats even more telling is that as a long time lp101er I know enough not to post a critical post like this over there lest I be banned or have the post censored.

This site allows a lot of latitude when complaining about its policies or commenting about rival sites that lp101 has a demonstrated record of not permitting.

[Aedalas]

rumor that a "major manufacturer was going to start making these designs," but they wouldn't tell me who that major manufacturere was.

How recently was this? Could it have been Southord maybe?

Also, lible is hard as hell to prove. They don't just have to prove that what you said is false, they have to prove that you KNOW what you said is false. Gets a bit tricky.

[piotr]

But LP101 supports the major manufacturers who rip off my designs and they do not permit me to even post about it.
Before my post count there ended at 7111 posts last month, a number of my posts were squelched.
The idea there is that the people who rip off my designs for commercial manufacture would be "libeled" by my calling them opportunistic parasites, or leeches or lice.

I don't see how that could be construed as libelous. I read "opportunistic parasites, or leeches or lice" as opinion and opinion cannot be deemed defamatory.

The moderator there absolutely forbid my discussing the implications of this to others who create things such as jaakko fagerlund, jkthecjer, or lauren. I was forbidden to discuss the implications of this to all forums on the internet where creative people share regardless of the topic and to the whole movement of makerspaces or hackerspaces where creative people do new things.
The topic is absolutely verboten.

There is no legitimate reason that I can see for this sort of restriction on communication. Discussing the possible implications of this outcome with members of any forum has no legal implications that I can see. It seems to me that management at lp101 simply didn't want you to enlighten the other creative members of the forum.

He was afraid of starting a "shitstorm" and said I was libeling whoever. Libel is a legal term for false characterization that causes material damage to someone. Truth is not libel and there is no right to profit by someone elses work that can be legally defended under libel law. Many lawyers will write threatening letters to people whom they want to shut up but few will file actual charges and only a small fraction of those who do file libel cases win them, Years ago when I was young I studied mass communications, journalism public relations, radio and TV broadcasting, and advertizing at the University of Wisconsin at La Crosse, and libel was one of the topics covered.
Squechtone thinks libel is hearing anything he doesnt want to agree with.

I'm no lawyer but I am fairly confident that in all of the common law countries (including the USA) that truth is a defence against the claim of defamation (libel or slander). That is to say, if a statement is true it can not be defamatory. Cease and Desist letters are thrown around like confetti at a wedding. You can even download templates for them. Receiving a C&D letter is not in itself significant. The defamation law in mosts states in the USA is peculiar in that they recognise some statement as defamatory per se, i.e. as intrinsically defamatory and hence there is no need for the plaintiff to prove damage but these are confined to four major types of factual claims (see http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/what-defamatory-statement for more details) which I don't think are relevant here. In any event an opinion can not be deemed defamatory.

Fuck 'em Ray. The Bogota's are synonymous with your name. You were stating nothing more than that you are the originator of the Bogota design and that Southern Specialties and Sparrows reproduced your design without acknowledging you as the originator. You didn't accuse anyone of committing a crime or violating any other law. Your remarks amount to no more than a claim that these companies lack originality.

Also, I can't see how you can be held accountable for the protest behaviour of others. That is of no concern to you and it is not your responsibility to stop the behaviour of others.

[piotr]

Could it have been Southord maybe?

They even called them "Bogota Picks". Calling them "Bogota Picks" at least implicitly acknowledges Ray as the origin of the design but an explicit acknowledgement would have been more civilised.