different size driver pins

[the lockpickkid]

This may seem like a dumb question but I have to ask! I mainly work on kwikset and Schlage locks, but I mostly just do NDE entry work but I am curious about some locks I have seen. Some Harlocks's and National's and maybe others have different size driver pins, not all the same size in a lock, kwikset for instance has all the same size drivers. Does anybody know why?

[HallisChalmers]

This may seem like a dumb question but I have to ask! I mainly work on kwikset and Schlage locks, but I mostly just do NDE entry work but I am curious about some locks I have seen. Some Harlocks's and National's and maybe others have different size driver pins, not all the same size in a lock, kwikset for instance has all the same size drivers. Does anybody know why?

When you say different size driver pins - do you mean diameter or length? I have a kryptonite padlock with Schlage core and it has different length driver and key pins.

Tough bastard - haven't picked it yet.

[the lockpickkid]

I mean different length, I just don't know why they do this. What's the purpose?

[Spiritech]

It's done on locks with short bibles, so the springs don't get over compressed or end up over the shear line with shallow and deep cuts. Most common variety of this in Australia is Lockwood 530 style cylinders.

[barbarian]

Balanced pin stack.

Some locks use a short key pin with a longer driver and vice versa. This way each pin stack is the same length. Makes the key slide in easier if there are deep and shallow cuts close together. Plus you can't get feedback from spring pressure and know how long the pins are.

Plus what Spiritech said too.

[the lockpickkid]

That makes a little bit of sense, I understand the short bible part, I never thought of that.

[l0ckp1cker]

And to make it harder to pick them I guess.
One of my entries for the contest was a Yale P301, which also has spool driver pins of various lengths making it pretty annoying to pick it.

Awol70 has a special name for these pins, but I can't remember at the moment....

Just popped into mind: graduated spools.

[awol70]

And to make it harder to pick them I guess.
One of my entries for the contest was a Yale P301, which also has spool driver pins of various lengths making it pretty annoying to pick it.

Awol70 has a special name for these pins, but I can't remember at the moment....

Just popped into mind: graduated spools.

graduated or "balanced " drivers"
#3 keypin=#7 driver.
#8keypin=#2 driver..

[l0ckp1cker]

And to make it harder to pick them I guess.
One of my entries for the contest was a Yale P301, which also has spool driver pins of various lengths making it pretty annoying to pick it.

Awol70 has a special name for these pins, but I can't remember at the moment....

Just popped into mind: graduated spools.

graduated or "balanced " drivers"
#3 keypin=#7 driver.
#8keypin=#2 driver..

Ahhh... I didn't know that.
I thought the graduated drivers were just drivers with various lengths, regardless of the key pin lengths.
My bad

[uklockpicka]

And to make it harder to pick them I guess.
One of my entries for the contest was a Yale P301, which also has spool driver pins of various lengths making it pretty annoying to pick it.

Awol70 has a special name for these pins, but I can't remember at the moment....

Just popped into mind: graduated spools.

graduated or "balanced " drivers"
#3 keypin=#7 driver.
#8keypin=#2 driver..

is that a ratio pattern ??? so if there were a 6keypin then the driver would need to be a 4???

[barbarian]

That idea is correct, but be careful. If you look at the trusty Medeco pinning guide they have done the math for you. So that if you are using a number five key pin you also need a number five driver.

The number five driver pin would be the right length to give you a balanced stack with a number five key pin. So for a number one key pin you would use a number one driver. In each case the combination of the two would give the same length.

Some other locks use a total number of say 15. So for all the pins in the stack, the total should be 15. Master pins etc.

[ToolyMcgee]

is that a ratio pattern ??? so if there were a 6keypin then the driver would need to be a 4???

For it to be a perfectly balanced lock, then yes. Each stack would need to be the same height. To accomplish that you need to compensate for the length of the key pin with the appropriate size driver. It is a characteristic typical of a higher security lock, but it is not uncommon for a yale, sargent, schlage, etc. to have an approximated balance in the stacks. So 3 sizes of driver for 10 possible depths, or 2 sizes for 8 possible cut depths.

Balanced pin stack.

Some locks use a short key pin with a longer driver and vice versa. This way each pin stack is the same length. Makes the key slide in easier if there are deep and shallow cuts close together. Plus you can't get feedback from spring pressure and know how long the pins are.

Plus what Spiritech said too.

What they said Plus, you could not use a decoding tool to overlift pins and approximate a cut key in a lock where driver height is not a constant.

-Tooly

[the lockpickkid]

Sounds way complicated! Also on some of these driver pins, for a certain lock brand that I can't think of off the top of my head, the springs fit over the driver, in the case of these "balanced drivers" anyway that is what I have read I think somewhere.