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Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padlocks

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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:35 pm

Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padlocks

Difference between old and new American 5200

Seen a number of people asking again about the difference between the old and new American 5200 padlock.   There are a few differences.   Received two with cut shackles recently from Wolfspring (highly recommend him for trades). One happened to be old style and one was new style, and decided while replacing the shackles and making keys, would show the internal differences. 

Here are the two locks side-by-side. On the left is the old-school lock, and on the right, the new kid on the block. 

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In this picture, you can see inside the lock bodies.  Both locks are in the 'locked' position.  The cams are oriented 90 degrees from each other!  Old school lock's cam is aligned vertically, new style is aligned horizontally.

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The keyways are different as well.  

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The old style uses an AM3 blank, while the new one uses an M17 blank. The top blank is the new style, the bottom is the old style.  If you are trying to buy one on eBay, look at pictures of the keys... The shape of the key bow (where you hold the key) is different!

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The back side of the lock cylinders, so you can see the orientation difference.  These locks are picked and in the 'unlocked' position - opposite of the above pictures.

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Old style lock is disassembled with a c-clip on the back, and the shell is brass.

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New style lock shell is a cheap, soft, brittle metal, and the plug is retained with two crimps.

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To open the crimps, use a small flat screwdriver and slide it into the keyway...

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And using the keyway for leverage, pry the crimp outwards.  Recommend you do this in three stages so it looks nice and does not tear the metal.

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Turn the plug so the keyway faces the other side...

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And repeat to open the other crimp.

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Now the plug can be pressed out.  You can use a plug follower, but I want to pull the drivers and pins for pictures.

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And the pins - where the picking magic happens.

Old hotness.  Serrated driver pin, spoorated spool driver pins.  Heck, even the key pins are serrated.

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New and busted. One lame BumpStop driver pin.  All other pins are b.o.r.i.n.g.

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The bump stop pin is larger in diameter than the other pins, so the holes for the pin channels in the bible are larger in diameter.  The pin channels in the plug are normal diameter, so the BumpStop pin will not fit fully into the plug - only the tapered and angled end will go in.

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The BumpStop pin will fit into any pin chamber in the bible, but it is recommended not to put it into the first pin chamber, as it makes it obvious where it is located. Also, a 1 or 2 key pin is recommended for use on the chamber with the BumpStop driver pin, as that will allow the gap between the key pin and driver pin that is needed for the bump protection to work.

There you have the differences of which I am aware.  Old ones, just by looking at the pins, are more of a challenge to pick.

Gordon 
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WolfSpring

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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:12 pm

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

I send you nice pretty locks and the first thing you do is strip them down naked!!! Lol. Great write up. I posted a long time ago with the new ones when i first found one but didn't go near into the detail that you did. So glad you put this out here for the rest of people to see now you will start getting all the messages about them lol.
http://www.youtube.com/wolfspring


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xeo

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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:31 pm

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

Very informative. Thanks. Such a shame... the older Americans are so fun to pick.
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The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
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fgarci03

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Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:53 am

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

Great write up, as always!


xeo wrote:Very informative. Thanks. Such a shame... the older Americans are so fun to pick.

You bet, dude...
:mrgreen:


Thanks for explanation!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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rerun12

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Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

Gordon, you're the man and a great asset to the site, we're all lucky to have you :salute:

also, i have the new cruddy 5200..if anyone has and older one for trade or sale hit me uppp
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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jeffmoss26

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Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:30 pm

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

Wolfspring has a bunch of 5200s for sale...
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

Very good Gordon. Thanks

Will be really handy to simply refer anyone wondering to this post.

It really IS a shame.... the corruption! But ah well, whataya do?! :???:
ESPECIALLY DISGUSTING to me is the 'crimp' rather than a c-clip.
Nice how-to instructions on dealing with that by the way.

p.s. Different positions of the cams.... any guesses as to why?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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GWiens2001

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Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:08 pm

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

Oldfast wrote:Very good Gordon. Thanks

Will be really handy to simply refer anyone wondering to this post.

It really IS a shame.... the corruption! But ah well, whataya do?! :???:
ESPECIALLY DISGUSTING to me is the 'crimp' rather than a c-clip.
Nice how-to instructions on dealing with that by the way.

p.s. Different positions of the cams.... any guesses as to why?



My uneducated guess is so the bypass tool can't fit. But that would only make sense for locks that are not key retaining, as the bypass tool does not work on key retaining locks. Cheaper to make only one kind of key cylinder for both key retaining and non key-retaining locks.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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rerun12

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Post Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:51 am

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

jeffmoss26 wrote:Wolfspring has a bunch of 5200s for sale...


ahh thats right jeff almost forgot. think is i dont use paypal so im outta luck :???:
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Differences between Old and New style American 5200 Padl

GWiens2001 wrote:My uneducated guess is so the bypass tool can't fit. But that would only make sense for locks that are not key retaining, as the bypass tool does not work on key retaining locks. Cheaper to make only one kind of key cylinder for both key retaining and non key-retaining locks.

I'd say that's a pretty sound guess. That's kinda what I was thinking as well. But again, I'm only guessing too.
Any number of things coud've played into it really. And with Master, the determining factor may have been
nothing more than a financial decision or ease of manufacturing. Who knows.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."

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