Bogota Picks Versus the Imitators

[MBI]

As I'm sure many here know, Raimundo invented the popular Bogota lockpick. He also now holds the trademark to that name, at least in regards to it's use on lockpicks. There are many imitators out there making similar picks and trademarking the name is a way he can exercise some control as to who uses the name he's become associated with.

I have no idea how many pickmakers use the name Bogota name on their lockpicks with permission. Originally Serepick was the only place I was aware of that was licensed to use the trademark. I'd thought at one point Sparrow's was licensed to use the name but I just checked and saw that they're calling them "double peak" and "triple peak" rakes, so I guess I was mistaken.

Southord later started selling copies. If I understand the situation correctly, they either got served with a cease and desist letter or were informed of the trademark and quickly changed the name from "Bogota" to "Pagoda". Interesting thing to note though, they originally changed both the webpage advertisement and the URL from Bogota to Pagoda:
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... XS-12.html
but now that link is dead.

As of today, their webpage itself still advertises their Bogota imitations under the new non-infringing "Pagoda" name, however at some point the URL has been quietly changed back to say "Bogota".
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... XS-12.html

Is this an attempt to capitalize on the name in Google searches, despite not having a license to use the trademark?
If so, it seems rather iffy to me.

It also seems like every time I turn around, I'm seeing yet another new pick company coming out of the woodwork, many of whom have obvious Bogota imitations in their lineup. Sometimes they are advertised with the Bogota name, sometimes without. I'd be curious to know how many are doing so with Rai's approval and how many are ripping off the name.

More than just the name itself though it's interesting to me, to see a design that was once just a little known "secret" among some locksport enthusiasts, but has spread all over the internet recently on the many new lockpicking forums that have sprouted up and in so many different pickmakers and retailer's offerings.

[Riyame]

I would guess you are right about the SEO thing although Xeo or Elbow would have to chime in to be certain.

[GWiens2001]

Have had brand new locksmith apprentices at my favorite shop ask me if I know what a Bogota pick is, and where to get one. I pull my set made by Rai out of my wallet, and say they can get them from Serepick.

Gordon

[Josephus]

Both pages have been active all along.

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... XS-12.html
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... XS-12.html

Looks like Pagoda went dead at around 8AM on March 5th. Probably not just SEO. They don't even use any of the basic metadata techniques.

[Neilau]

What would be the ruling on calling them "Bogota style" picks ?

[escher7]

I don't understand your second link. The url and the site both say Pagoda. I sympathise with Rai from a fairness perspective, but as long as these companies don't use the original name or something similar, they are OK. Of course McDonalds sues anyone who even gets close, but they have the big bucks to pursue it. I know that Southord believes they are merely using a design that is in common use and therefore they are not infringing. Not saying I agree.

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

What would be the ruling on calling them "Bogota style" picks ?

Perfectly legal, as it is just comparison.

[MBI]

I don't understand your second link. The url and the site both say Pagoda. I sympathise with Rai from a fairness perspective, but as long as these companies don't use the original name or something similar, they are OK. Of course McDonalds sues anyone who even gets close, but they have the big bucks to pursue it. I know that Southord believes they are merely using a design that is in common use and therefore they are not infringing. Not saying I agree.

As of the time I posted that second "Pagoda" link yesterday, that link gave an error message saying something to the effect of This item is no longer available. Since it surprised me a bit, I tried it in two browsers, refreshing the page in the process to be sure I wasn't bringing up some old version from my browser cache. Yet today, after I posted the link and it started getting some hits, both links now bring up the same web page listing them as "Pagoda" picks. Wishing now I'd taken a screencap.

You can see the timeline from the web archive links that Josephus posted. The first link created was Bogota, then two days later after SouthOrd was informed of the trademark infringement, the Pagoda URL was created and the name of the picks on the web page was changed. Yesterday when I followed one of the links in a very old thread, I was just surprised to see the Bogota link active and the Pagoda link was not in use, when it had been the other way around after SouthOrd responded to the trademark issue. It just seemed a little fishy to me at the time.

I don't have a problem with companies making imitation picks, I was referring to the use of the name.

Even if Rai had applied for and been granted a utility patent on the design, it would have long since expired by now. I'm no patent attorney, but I'm betting the granting of that patent would have probably been iffy. Although anecdotal evidence among locksport enthusiasts seems to indicate that Bogota rakes have a higher success rate than other rakes, it would have been difficult to show that one particular set of depth and spacing of the bumps on a rake is functionally different enough from other rakes to be considered patentable. I realize that part of the success of these rakes is the hand polishing, but once again, how can that even be patented?

Which brings up Trademarks. When it comes to picks the name Bogota has become linked with Rai's name, so it's understandable if he wanted to exercise some control in that association. From what I know of the guy I suspect it's a desire to keep the name associated with a certain quality level, more than for financial reasons, but whatever the reasons are they're his business.

As I understand it, labeling your product with an unlicensed trademark isn't allowed, but as you see with generic medications, putting "compare to" before the trademarked name is legally permissible. It's a way of letting the consumer know your product is the same as, or similar to, the name brand but is still a separate and distinct product.

In my post I brought up more than just the unauthorized use of the Bogota name, but with the way I structured my post I guess the other stuff got lost in the shuffle. That trademark topic was just the catalyst that got me thinking about these picks, in general, and my goal in starting this thread was to stimulate some conversation on the topic. With the advent of the internet it's interesting to see how one small niche item can spread from one group and become known in other groups worldwide.

[xeo]

URLs aren't subject to trademark rules. Using Bogota in your URL and metatags/page code is a way to increase SEO and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. Look, I just said the word Bogota and nothing can be done about it unless I am capitalizing from a product name that infringes a registered trademark.

Trademark search brings this up, filed by similar individuals:

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield ... 2qmvp9.2.4
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield ... 2qmvp9.2.3

[MBI]

URLs aren't subject to trademark rules.

That's good info, thanks.