Received an ASSA in the mail today, but...

[Solomon]

You guessed it, I'm getting nowhere fast. I know the tolerances in these are supposed to be really high, but this is ridiculous. Using heavy tension, only the front pin binds... and it won't set properly nomatter how gentle or careful I am. It oversets every time, and if I rake the pins, the third pin oversets aswell and that's about as far as I'm getting.

It's a cutaway lock, so for the moment I'm looking to see what's going on every now and then. It's helping, but not much... I get the same results from the other side, but even looking to see exactly what's going on and moving the pins individually all I can get is a couple of overset pins - which only bind with heavy tension and drop back into the keyway when I let off the tiniest bit. I even went so far as to cheat by lifting them each through the side and they STILL won't set properly regardless of how little or how much tension I apply.

I tried top and bottom tension (and both simultaneously), aswell as tensioning each way in both directions aswell... tried SPP, raking, rocking, scrubbing, you name it. This thing just doesn't want to budge. It contains serrated drivers in every chamber and the bitting is a real nightmare; usually I wouldn't jump to such a conclusion but I'm pretty sure this is having an effect on how they're behaving nd making it nigh on impossible to pick. Take a look at this quick diagram I mocked up (pin 1 is the closest to the face of the plug):



Also for reference, below is an image of the cylinder. It is stamped on the side with the code "HNR 76461", which I assume is just the factory code for whatever restricted key blank it takes and the installation it came from, but maybe it'll tell one of you something that might help me out.



EDIT: The original close-up of the pins wasn't much good so I took a better one. Note the length of that front key pin, and how close the gap between it and the driver is to the shear line! Also, anyone had experience with this type of drivers? They're like barrel pins but with a very thin ledge added to each end. They definately aren't keen on the idea of setting properly.



This thing is driving me nuts. If anyone has experience picking these and knows a little trick I can use to get the right tension or can fill me in on why nothing is behaving the way it should, I'd really appreciate it. My gf is bugging me to get on here now so I'll check back here later.

[l0ckp1cker]

For Assa's, use as little tension as possible.
And with little I mean hardly supporting the weight of the tension wrench.
What you can do to get the right tension is to start with no tension and than gently rake the lock (or actually bouncing is the correct term if I'm not mistaken) a few times.
Then slowly increase the tension with the tiniest amount possible and bounce some more.
Repeat this until you feel the first pin binding. you are now very close to the actual tension needed to spp it.

I'm sure Wizwazzle has some good tips as well as I've seen his videos of various Assa locks being picked, but I'm not sure if he's still that active at the moment

[Solomon]

Hmm alright, I'll give that a go. I'm gonna make a tensioner especially for this, cos the so-called feather weight ones I've made already don't seem to do the job. And yeah, I've seen wiz picking one before but he's away for a while from what I understand. I can see this little thing keeping me busy for a good couple of days.

[quaiboi]

that's one nice lock u got there

[Solomon]

that's one nice lock u got there

Would be a lot nicer if I was able to pick it! Still no luck, I can't tension this damn thing properly and I don't know why. Getting over that front pin is giving me a hard time aswell.

I wanted to take it apart and put it back together pin by pin as a training aid, but I can't even do that because it didn't come with a key and ASSA has like 100 different blanks (none of the ones available to me at the moment being correct). I know there are other ways to disassemble it but it'd be a real pain to do.

[HallisChalmers]

Hmm alright, I'll give that a go. I'm gonna make a tensioner especially for this, cos the so-called feather weight ones I've made already don't seem to do the job. And yeah, I've seen wiz picking one before but he's away for a while from what I understand. I can see this little thing keeping me busy for a good couple of days.

If you have a pick that allows you to get over the first pin - and reach the others - I suggest going for the other pins first.

Pick the rear pins first - and then on your way out - touch that first pin and see if it will go.

[Solomon]

If you have a pick that allows you to get over the first pin - and reach the others - I suggest going for the other pins first.

Pick the rear pins first - and then on your way out - touch that first pin and see if it will go.

Believe me, I've tried it. Every hook I have. I even cheated by moving the pin stacks through the cutaway side to make sure I was manipulating them 100% individually... still, no dice. Why oh why won't these pins set nomatter how careful or precise I am? I was thinking that when the guy milled out the side it messed the cylinder up somehow, but the normal side behaves exactly the same way by the feel and sound of it.

Another thing I'll mention is that the plug does rotate when I insert a tensioner, as you'd expect it's a very small amount however it isn't a smooth rotation. When pins do overset, most of the time I need to manually counter rotate the plug to get them to drop back down again. It's very difficult to control tension this way; I'm actually considering investing in some of those double sided falle style wrenches to see if those help.

[Solomon]

Bumping thread because awol is back and I've seen him pick a 6 pin ASSA on youtube lol... hopefully if he sees this he can fire a bit of wisdom my way.

I've been playing with this on and off, and have learned that extremely light tension just plain doesn't work. A couple of pins will set with heavy tension, but past that I can't seem to get anywhere. Still, I'm making progress... that front pin is gonna be the death of me though. Someone mentioned that ASSA cylinders are counterbored, can someone explain what this means? I'm guessing it's a manufacturing process designed to make it more difficult to keep the pins at shear, but how is it done?

I'm determined to crack this little SOB!

[awol70]

Someone mentioned that ASSA cylinders are counterbored, can someone explain what this means? I'm guessing it's a manufacturing process designed to make it more difficult to keep the pins at shear, but how is it done?

counterboring provides the same/similar effect as a spool pin,by creating a lip in the chamber,instead of the driver itself, by boring a slightly larger hole piloted by the existing chamber bore.
this is cheaper,by far,and hence found in cheap chinese locks ala' Tri-Circle.
i highly doubt ASSA uses this cut-corner method of shearline mimicry especially in a lock with spooled drivers.
have you tried picking the lock the other direction?
the pins should bind in the opposite order.
in my ASSA locks, the tolerances for machining error
(particularly in the alignment of the chambers) are very low and the positions seem to have been tweeked and appropriately placed to unset the first pin every time you get close to setting the last.
i have found this in a lot of top-end low tolerance locks,such as the Lockwood 234-C45,
certain Chubbs and Yales as well.
lubrication is very important.
everything should move very freely.
i use silicone spray for locks that will never see service again,and are just for collecting/picking.
if i ever had to place any of my collected locks into service it would mean complete break-down,wipe-off, re lube with dry graphite.
lastly watch very carefully for any binding at all.
perhaps experiment with TOK tension, just to see if you get a better response...
i tend to make a tension tool dedicated to every Hi-sec lock I pick...
maybe that will help a bit...
best of luck...you will get in...
Remember, you are dealing with balanced dual spooled drivers...no walk in the park on a sunny day...

[frantic57744]

Assa's offer extremely high pick resistance, you may find also that if you do get a false set the whole thing just seems to freeze and the feedback doesn't come through as with normal security pins (I don,t know why) I sometimes switch tension from bottom to tok depending on what pins I,m trying to get to, You,ve done extremely well if you pick it open ,,,good luck

[Solomon]

counterboring provides the same/similar effect as a spool pin,by creating a lip in the chamber,instead of the driver itself, by boring a slightly larger hole piloted by the existing chamber bore.
this is cheaper,by far,and hence found in cheap chinese locks ala' Tri-Circle.
i highly doubt ASSA uses this cut-corner method of shearline mimicry especially in a lock with spooled drivers.
have you tried picking the lock the other direction?
the pins should bind in the opposite order.
in my ASSA locks, the tolerances for machining error
(particularly in the alignment of the chambers) are very low and the positions seem to have been tweeked and appropriately placed to unset the first pin every time you get close to setting the last.
i have found this in a lot of top-end low tolerance locks,such as the Lockwood 234-C45,
certain Chubbs and Yales as well.
lubrication is very important.
everything should move very freely.
i use silicone spray for locks that will never see service again,and are just for collecting/picking.
if i ever had to place any of my collected locks into service it would mean complete break-down,wipe-off, re lube with dry graphite.
lastly watch very carefully for any binding at all.
perhaps experiment with TOK tension, just to see if you get a better response...
i tend to make a tension tool dedicated to every Hi-sec lock I pick...
maybe that will help a bit...
best of luck...you will get in...
Remember, you are dealing with balanced dual spooled drivers...no walk in the park on a sunny day...

Cheers awol! Yeah, I tried every kind of tension imaginable... top, bottom, both at the same time, switching between top and bottom, heavy, light, pulsating... and every variation in both directions too!

Seems like lubing it is definately the way to go, so what you said about silicone spray sounds perfect. I know these should respond to extremely light tension, but this one just plain doesn't. I shouldn't have to manually counter rotate the plug to reduce the tension either... that's one of the biggest problems. I'll get my hands on some of that stuff and lube it up, then try again to see what happens. How/where should I be applying the spray though? Any recommendations on the type of silicone spray would be great aswell.

I'm gonna crack this eventually... even if I get the cutaway side picked you can expect a great deal of excitement. Once I do that I might switch the pins around because the front pin is extremely nasty. Even if I decide to keep them the way they are, you can bet your ass I'll strip it down so you can all have a gander at what's inside.

in my ASSA locks, the tolerances for machining error
(particularly in the alignment of the chambers) are very low and the positions seem to have been tweeked and appropriately placed to unset the first pin every time you get close to setting the last.
i have found this in a lot of top-end low tolerance locks,such as the Lockwood 234-C45,

ooohh yeah, LOVE those factory-set lockwood 530 cores. brand new ones are just stupidly hard for a basic 6 pin non-security pinned lock.

Solomon, I'm wondering about your concerns for the modification of this lock.

You say you sometimes have to manually turn the plug back to get it to unset the pins? Does the plug move side-to-side freely (ie: with your finger pressed on the face) or does it need real force.
Chances are if this was made as a one-off, or it has been dropped or compressed at some point, the plug may be really dragging on the casing, which would explain the heavy tension you're needing.
If this is the case, there's not really much you can do to get it into normal working order, apart from stripping it and repairing the damage. This is not an easy job, but it can be entertaining.

If the person had a key, they may not have noticed the issues that came from the modification process.

[Solomon]

GutterClown, you're right about the plug. If I put my finger on it, there's no movement. It moves a tiny bit, but yeah it definately takes a good old push. It sits very tightly in the shell... both sides behave this way, and only one side is a cutaway so I'll try a bit of silicone spray to see if that does anything.

If not, sad to say I don't really have any way of getting apart so I'll possibly offer it up for trade to see if someone else can do something with it. Then I'll get a new one and try my luck with that... I'm pretty confident that I could pick one of these, as long as they don't all behave so weird anyway. Here's hoping!

[the lockpickkid]

Solomon, I don't have any cutaway locks, but I was wondering, is it as hard to pick a cutaway? I mean you can see the pins moving and your pick working right? I have always wondered this, I have heard people say in the past that it didn't seem to make any difference in picking at all with a cutaway, if it was a hard lock, it was still hard to pick, what do you think?

I know you can pick this lock, don't trade it away or sell it, I have had locks that I couldn't pick and I just came back to them later, don't give up!!

[Solomon]

Solomon, I don't have any cutaway locks, but I was wondering, is it as hard to pick a cutaway? I mean you can see the pins moving and your pick working right? I have always wondered this, I have heard people say in the past that it didn't seem to make any difference in picking at all with a cutaway, if it was a hard lock, it was still hard to pick, what do you think?

I know you can pick this lock, don't trade it away or sell it, I have had locks that I couldn't pick and I just came back to them later, don't give up!!

The short answer is no. Being able to see the workings as you pick a cutaway makes things easier to understand, you have much more precision when it comes to what you're doing with your pick and you won't keep going over already set pins and accidentally disrupting them. As a training/demonstration aid, they're fantastic bits of kit... but if you're gonna get one just to pick you'll get bored and cover the cutaway side up very quickly. You wouldn't get much of a sense of accomplishment if you had your x-ray specs on lol... and if you did, it'd be very short lived.

Now, whereas being able to see inside the lock removes a lot of the challenge, I'm by no means saying it automatically makes it easy either! Give anyone a cutaway of a lock which is beyond their level of experience and they're still gonna struggle with it. It doesn't remove the challenge altogether, but if you're already a fairly accomplished picker it detracts from the experience somewhat... unless you're filling it with crazy bittings and security pins anyway.

Anyway, moving away from that, cheers for the kind words mate! You can bet your ass if I ever do get it picked there'll be a bit of a party going on in here.