Kwikset: Persnickety Picking Problem

[frostypicker]

I like alliteration lol

Anyway, I'm having issues with my Kwikset deadbolt lock cylinder. When I pick, I'll usually set 1 or 2 pins, then the plug turns a decent bit and stops. Kinda like a false set, but this is the cheapest Kwikset you can buy, so I don't believe it has any security pins. After that happens, 1 pin (I believe pin 4, second from the back) will jam up and become impossible to lift. So I can't pick it.

The key works, but I've noticed the jamming pin with the key too. It will get 3 clicks in then stop, and you have to use a decent amount of force to get it all the way in. After putting in/pulling out the key a couple times, it seems to go back to normal, with no jamming pins. So then I try to pick it again and all is fine, all the pins lift...until I set one or two and the plug rotates, then that pin stack will jam up again.


I have the lock cylinder (mortise/rim cylinder?) out of the deadbolt frame with the tail still on, so I dunno if that's part of the issue or not. I wouldn't think so, as I've seen people pick just the cylinder before with no issue. (And by cylinder I mean the plug + it's immediate housing, the round part in the center of the deadbolt)


Might be easier if I just provided a picture. Give me a few moments and I'll go do that.

[Papa Gleb]

Picture would def help. Did you get this lock from the store or from someone because you never know who might have played with it before. Just 2-3 days ago I picked a standard Schlage rim cylinder and after gutting it, there were 4 spools which are no supposed to be there, at least as far as I know.

At what point after the false set or whatever does that jammed pin start to move again? but even before that have you lubed that lock?

[frostypicker]

The lock is brand new, picked it up from the hardware store myself.

As for the picture, my phone is being a pain and won't send it. Just picture a mortise cylinder just with the tail piece still hanging off the end.

The jammed pin won't start moving again, even after turning the tension wrench the opposite way and resetting the pins. I have to run the key in and out a few times for it to become unstuck. It's not like...binding or anything, it's not an issue of resistance. It straight up gets stuck and becomes immovable, at least with all the force I can possibly exert on a pick. I don't think lube would really help much.

[mdc5150]

Rotary pick. This is a prime example of Kwikset just being crap.

[Farmerfreak]

Is it a smartkey lock with the little slot to the left of the keyway?

If so, good luck picking it. If not, does the key still work when the lock is upside down? Spring wrapped around a driver.

If you haven't lubed the lock yourself, then yes lube could be an issue. Also its rare but I have seen kwiksets with spools. Typically it's on their higher quality locks but it wouldn't be too big of a surprise if they started adding them to everything non-smartkey

[mercurial]

It isn't going to be possible to pinpoint this problem with any degree of surety, without gutting the lock.

That said, this sounds like it could be the result of a missing top pin in that chamber.

The plug turning as if it's a false set would be due to the spring blocking the sheer line & getting bent. When you release tension, the spring could be bent & caught up between the plug & the shell, until it is forced out of the way by using the key. This is the simplest explanation I can come up with to explain what you describe.

...Mark

[jones]

Is it a smartkey lock with the little slot to the left of the keyway?

If so, good luck picking it. If not, does the key still work when the lock is upside down? Spring wrapped around a driver.

If you haven't lubed the lock yourself, then yes lube could be an issue. Also its rare but I have seen kwiksets with spools. Typically it's on their higher quality locks but it wouldn't be too big of a surprise if they started adding them to everything non-smartkey

I took apart a kwikset deadbolt today, it had 2 spools in it

[Oldfast]

Obvious questions first. Silly, I know... but...

Is it possible you have actually picked the lock, but the tailpiece is simply
hitting the vice you have it in... only allowing it to turn a few degrees?

p.s. was working with an older kwikset knob yesterday: contained 2 spools

[Kezo]

Ditto on the spools. I opened up two sets of Kwikset knobs and dead bolt. They each had two spool drivers in them. Not too bad.

[frostypicker]

To answer a few questions...

It's not a smart key lock, just a regular deadbolt.

I don't have a vise, so we can rule that out lol.

And I dunno about the other stuff. I have a plug follower for an American lock,ot sure if it'll fit but if it does I'll go ahead and gut it, see if I can't find an obvious answer.


P.S. After I was having trouble with this thing, my brother wanted to try and pick it. I said yeah go ahead, just don't be breakin' mah picks. (He's never picked before) and to add insult to injury, he picked it open after a few minutes. Go figure.

So I dunno what the issue is, maybe it's just me. But I do have other spool locks I've picked, and they've never had the issue of a pin stack being totally immovable.

If so, good luck picking it. If not, does the key still work when the lock is upside down? Spring wrapped around a driver.

You mean the whole cylinder turned upside down or the plug upside down in the shell?

If I flip the whole thing upside down, yeah the key still works.


Just for reference, this is what we're dealing with:
(sorry about the image quality, my cellphone blows)

[jones]

An AA battery works ok for a plug follower, in a pinch I've used a rolled up piece of paper.
Are you sure you are being gentle enough on the tension? I usually pick a kwikset with bottom tension and just place the tension wrench in the bottom left-most groove,
so your wrench is pointing left, that leaves plenty of room for your pick

[Papa Gleb]

Mate, you probably got us all on the edge of the seat curious to see what pile of shit or how huge kwikset fucked up this time. Gut it ASAP and show pics.

As for your brother picking it, out of all the ideas/thoughts, the missing pin makes sense because the spring could have broke off by now making it pickable. Did you try to pick it after your bro? Plus if the spring is in the shear line no other pin would set.

[frostypicker]

Mate, you probably got us all on the edge of the seat curious to see what pile of shit or how huge kwikset fucked up this time. Gut it ASAP and show pics.

As for your brother picking it, out of all the ideas/thoughts, the missing pin makes sense because the spring could have broke off by now making it pickable. Did you try to pick it after your bro? Plus if the spring is in the shear line no other pin would set.

Yeah I gave it a shot and picked it today, it didn't really want to cooperate at first, but I got it to open after a few tries.

I did have plans to take a girl out tomorrow, but she flaked, so looks like I'll have time to gut it and post pictures of what I find.

[frostypicker]

Bumpity bump bump.

Ok, so I took it apart. I didn't find anything abnormal inside the lock, although I did see that pins #2 and #4 have spool drivers. Still doesn't really explain the pin stack getting completely stuck, but since it probably has really loose tolerances maybe the spool is just binding hardcore?

Dunno.

[youluckyfox]

Always avoid any abnormal, awkward, and affected alliteration.