Safe Chronicles, Part II - Beyond the Lockroom

[xeo]

Sticky.

[MartinHewitt]

Great! So I find his new postings even quicker.

[Oldfast]

Sticky.

ADHESIVE! ADHESIVE!

And I'm not gonna lie... feels damn good.
Worked long & hard for this piece of tape

Thanks for the recognition Admins/Mods!

Xeooo0OO OO0oooooooo!

I think the thing I like most about safes is there are so many 'interesting tidbits.' Who would think there could be so much fascinating history in a bunch of metal boxes... it really adds a sense of character to these old things.

So true. And when it comes to the history of safes, companies, and so on... it's really a tangled web. I only wish I could retain even half of the 'tidbits' I come across, lol. But my memory just doesn't work that way. So I've resigned myself to simply enjoying something AS I read it, knowing I'll probably never remember it again. lol

What a great posting to wake up with! Thanks!

Thanks for always tuning in Martin

Wonderful! Thanks for sharing. I'm confused, though, how gates are found when no contact points are felt. Could you please elaborate?

Great question Terry(!)... and one that helps generate good discussion. Long story, short: The security of most lock designs rely upon not allowing the fence to touch the wheel pack. As we know, the only time the fence should touch down is the drop-in area; the fence falls to 'test' the wheel pack for the correct combo. If all gates are aligned, it drops in. But excessive wear within a lock can result in the fence riding on the outer edge of wheel(s). When this occurs, we might literally hear and/or feel a gate as it passes under the fence.

The wheel pack & fence of this lock was kinda hard to see from my dark/shadowy photos. So lets take a look at a different lock, but with better lighting. This Yale L2, from a previous post. Full writeup here if interested... but mainly I'm just after this clear photo so you can have a good look at the fence-type. Notice how it spans over the entire wheel pack and drive cam?

Second; Normally, the nose and fence are two separate entities on the end of a lever arm.
You have a lever nose riding solely on the drive cam while the fence hovers over the wheels.

But this design is unique as the lever nose IS the fence. It spans the entire width of the wheel pack.
As a result, there's always the possibility that this type of lock may leak some 'bonus' material to help
get you started. Be sure to do some spinnin' with a keen touch & ear before going all out on graphing.

(below) Back to the OB-type lock we're talking about. Its' fence is similar to the L2 above in the fact that it's just one long piece spanning over the entire wheel pack. Now, when this lock was brand new, the diameter of the cam was greater than that of the wheels. The result: fence rides solely on the cam and the remainder of the fence is kept up off the wheels.

But you have a cast iron fence constantly riding a brass cam. Over many years the two eat away at each other (the brass more so than the iron). The fence gets a small wear spot, and the cam gets smaller and smaller in diameter. When enough wear occurs, the fence begins riding on wheel(s)... and this is when information is leaked to us through the dial. We might literally hear/feel a gate as it passes under the fence. The clues come from the fence as it encounters either the leading edge and/or trailing edge of a gate. This can produce a variety of sounds, none of which you'll hear... unless you're listening.

More on this spin: I mentioned the wheels read in the "glories order of 1, 2, 3". This is nice in any situation, but particularly here. Had the gate I heard first belonged to w3, I would have been forced to continue with conventional manipulation (reading CP's - which hopefully would now be detectable with w3's gate aligned). However, it belonged to w1, allowing me to continue my listening excursions. I can park w1 at its' gate, then bring w3 around for a listen... followed by wheels 3&2 around for a listen. Once finding w2, I can again do the same thing: park wheels 1&2 @ known gates, and bring w3 around for a listen/feel.

....................................................................

For a long time I (just like a lot of people) was immediately intimidated when I'd approached a lock that seemingly had nothing to work from. It should be said that there's a number of reasons for a lock to exhibit absolutely no CP's, (and not all of them are good for us spinners!). But sometimes it can turn out to be a real cake-walk. Don't be too quick to give up or let doubt creep in.

Also, don't limit yourself by thinking this scenario occurs only with this particular fence-type.... or even to just old locks. I've experienced this with friction-fences and even the more modern spring-loaded lever designs. Be attentive. If conditions are right, bonus material might be there for the taking.

Finally, (still along the same lines of this discussion) don't forget that every lock offers us the same scenario, just a much smaller window of it... the drop-in! Through this area the fence in entirely on the wheel pack! Yes, it's a small area. And no, w3 isn't (or shouldn't) be there. But if wheel 1 or 2 happens to be set within it, we MIGHT catch it. You're picking up wheels progressively and bringing them through this area anyway while doing a wheel count and pickup differences - why not be attentive. The drop-in for many locks includes some or all of 1-12, which just so happens to represent the months of the year for those folks setting their birthday for an easy-to-remember combo.

[MHM]

Brilliant couple of posts Oldfast, I love the commentary and I love the photos. Thanks for all your effort here.

[Oldfast]

Brilliant couple of posts Oldfast, I love the commentary and I love the photos. Thanks for all your effort here.

Michael, Your encouraging words & longterm interest in this thread mean a lot! Really appreciate it, for sure.

[AL usher69]

Old fast, I really enjoy your posts. Like I've said you are inspirational and the amount of knowledge your willing to share and help others. Your someone I look up too and have respect for . I read your posts most mornings with a cup of coffee, thank you and I look for your adventures in the future...

[Oldfast]

Hey Al, thanks again. Means a lot.

Was looking through all your past posts... you've come a long way my friend! And you've worked hard for it. To know I've played a small part along the way is certainly special for me. Also, I can kinda relate to you in regards to learning; I sometimes feel like I need to work 2,3,4 times longer at something to reach the same place that others arrived at with a little more ease, lol. Not a pity-party. More so just a realistic view of our strengths and weaknesses, then working through them. For me, it's just insane repetition.

Funny as it may sound, spinnin' has actually added a lot of depth to my life. Of course it's only one aspect of my life... but I'd say it's one of the major players. I've found all sorts of unexpected benefits from it, some of which extend into other facets of my life. I won't start droning on about all of it, lol (which I could easily do)... point is, it's a worthwhile cause putting some of this stuff out there in hopes that some others my find some of the same joy it's brought to me.

Keep up the great work and thank you for the kind words!

[Oldfast]

.

Shaw-Walker




52" tall . . 25" wide . . 27" deep



. . . . . . .


Yale OC-5 . . 3 wheel . . mesh-change . . friction-fence




Oddly, the opening index on this one was over at 3:00
For an easier spin I placed my own index @ 12 o'clock



I suppose I could elaborate a bit and tryn' make this into a story, lol
But really there's not much to tell. Was a slow start and I had to do
some work before I began making good progress. All in all, a pretty
straight forward spin session. Not the fastest, but not too shabby.









The 3 o'clock index was even more curious after the opening.
You can see the lock mounted RH, just as nearly all OC-5s are.
And the dial came to its' final stop at left 10 (just as it should).

At any rate, this was an 'open only'. No servicing. So,
I tightened the spline key and the mounting screws,
wrote out their combination... and that was that.

Again, not much to say or info to give. Just some
pics of another safe in case you ever run into one.


. . . . .. .. .. .. ... ... .......... ... ... .. .. .. .. . . . .



The above safe was actually from Winter Safecracking Season 2017-18.
Below is another Shaw-Walker I ran into this winter - nearly identical.

This one was tannish-brown though. The opening index, by the way,
was at 12 o'clock on this one. And it sported a bronze-cased OC-5.
A thorough cleaning and this thing was actually in fantastic shape.

I assume this one's still 1930-50, but was curious if anyone knew if
a bronze case might signify older or younger to any other OC-5 ??









*More on the manipulation of friction-fence locks HERE

.

[namggey]

You are doing a great job! Very nice photos of the safe and lock!

[Oldfast]

Thanks! I've been slacking for a while on documenting things, but hope to continue adding more.

Was sorry to hear that the safe you were eyeing turned out to be all messed up.
Finding a safe that's been raped is always a real shame. Hhhh *shakes head*

[namggey]

Yes I looked at it closer and it looks like a large three hinge Mosler safe. There is a small hole where the dial should be and it looks like the handle was cut or broken off. In another building I just started working in there is a small walk in vault that has also had the dial removed. The two doors are open. I was told by a tenant there is another safe in a storage room with the doors removed, but I did not get a chance this week to look at it. I will try to put up some photos. The first safe I mentioned is shoved face first against the wall and I can not move it not even enough to get a decent photo of the front of it. The little walk in vault is painted a tan color and it looks like it has about a dozen coats on it. This building used to be a bank in the early years. I do not really have permission to do anything with these safes till I speak to the owner of the building. I do not want to make him mad before I even get a chance to take some good photos. By the way what kind of camera do you use to take these photos if you don't mind me asking?

[Oldfast]

. . . . . By the way what kind of camera do you use to take these photos if you don't mind me asking?

Surprisingly, just a phone. All the pics within this thread were taken with the one I previously had (Samsung Galaxy S7).
I dropped that one a few too many times though and it started bleeding green and purple, lol. I begrudgingly upgraded.
But I gotta say, the S10's camera is really quite impressive, for a cell phone.

[namggey]

Wow! I still use a stupid flip phone lol. The camera I have is a little Samsung with a bad lens. I GOTTA upgrade!! Even when I can take some pictures of the safes and the vault they ain't gonna be much to look at. I noticed the cover was on the vaults lock held on by two screws. I wonder if the wheels are still in there? I got to talk to the building manager, my boss, and the owner of the two buildings to really open up the lock without getting fired or worse. But what I really want to do is learn Manipulation right now and you are a true inspiration my friend! All you guys whose posts I am reading and learning from have more useful information than all of my safe and vault manuals combined!