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Old Diebold Safe

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1mrchristopher

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Post Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:45 pm

Old Diebold Safe

First, sorry for the absence, life has gotten in the way of fun in a major way, but that's calmed down now.

A fellow from church, well into his 80's, asked me to help him with an old Diebold safe that he bought at auction years ago, and has since lost the combination to. I did a little reading in the limited resources I had amassed at that point, and drove with him out to the family farm, 23 miles from town. His kids run it now, as he and his (deceased) wife moved to town about 25 years ago when he retired. (at that point I didn't know what kind of safe it was, as he couldn't remember that either.) At this point, it's idle curiosity that has him wanting to open the safe, and as I want to learn the craft, I'm really more interested in learning about the lock type, so that I can determine possible factory combinations, and its manipulation, rather than going straight to destructive entry. Getting ahead of myself. I got out to the farm, saw what it was, and gulped, because I knew immediately that this was not going to be an easy or quick task.

Here are a few pictures

Image

Image

I was told elsewhere that it was likely a Diebold K Lock, a tidbit for which I was thankful. If I could find even a scrap of information on Diebold K Locks I'd be even more thankful! I'm researching, and gathering further resources, and I was reminded that I hadn't checked in over here for way too long.

While I am doing this as a part of my locksmithing, because I am learning, and because I have no experience, I'm not going to charge the guy more than 20 or 30 bucks for gas. He's a sweet old guy, and wanted to buy me dinner on the return trip from the farm, which gives you an idea to his generosity and trust. I politely declined, as I was expected for dinner at home. Next time out, maybe I'll sit down to dinner with him, we had a great conversation about farming on the way out, and about the wheat harvest on the way home. It's been about a year since he lost his wife, and I could tell that he didn't get to sit and talk as much as would like.
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bitbuster

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Post Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

this is a key-change lock with three 2.5" wheels.driver can be either front or rear mounted. dials doesn't come to a complete stop on this lock.
handle center to dial center is 3.75"
'Gunter glieben glauten globen' Def Leppard, Rock of Ages, 1983
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Mikeh727

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Post Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Hey 1MrChristopher,

I did a search online and found one source that says the K series lock is similar to the Yale HB series locks, which are gravity type fences.

There were a number of links I had to follow to get there, but I finally found a picture of the inside of the lock here: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Safes-3774/2012/11/hhm-safe-yale-lock.htm.

Also, here is another link that gives dialing instructions for the K series lock. I know you don't have the combination, but the information might be useful.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/2012/3/bought-old-diebold-safe.htm

Let us know how it goes.

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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Papa Gleb

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Post Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Great story to be apart off. Sorry I cant help with safes but g-dspeed.
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1mrchristopher

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Post Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:56 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Thanks everyone, I have Safeman's Guide Vols. 1-7 coming via evilbay as well, and am studying in spare moments. Hope to get to the safe again first part of next week.
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mercurial

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Post Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

This is not a gravity driven fence lock. It is closer to a direct entry fence lock. It does very closely resemble the Yale HB lock that Mikeh727 linked to, but it has a relocker that protects against the spindle & wheel pack being punched. It is located at approximately 11 o'clock on the wheel pack when you face the safe door.

If it isn't a copyright violation, I can provide drawings of the lock in question from a book.

There is a lever/fence arrangement that is pushed into the wheel pack by cam action when the handle is turned. You should find that the dial binds when you apply pressure to the boltwork handle.

These locks are either 4 wheel hand change, or 3 wheel key change.

The drive wheel has the same diameter as the combination wheels.

I'm not a safe technician & I defer to bitbuster when he says that the drive wheel can be on either side of the wheel pack, but I was under the impression that it is the wheel closest to the dial.

The drive wheel has false gates. You can find the true gate by using the dial to measure all of them, as with a direct entry type lock. The false gates are typically two increments wide, the true gate is wider.

Whilst I've never done it, the lock looks like it would respond to manipulation in the same manner as a direct entry type lock. Handle movement should indicate fence penetration into the wheel pack.

I hope that helps,

...Mark
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bitbuster

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Post Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:03 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

when wheel gates are aligned with the fence, the driver must be aligned with the fence. then the handle is rotated counterclockwise , forcing the fence UP into the gates. most drivers are rear mounted (some are front mounted). the DRIVER in the k-lock is key changeable.
'Gunter glieben glauten globen' Def Leppard, Rock of Ages, 1983
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mercurial

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Post Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:24 am

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Here is a picture showing the nature of the bolt/lever interaction, and the relocker :

Image

Here is a schematic of the lock :

Image

...Mark
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Mikeh727

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Post Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Thanks for the clarification on the fence type guys.

I wonder how this turned out?

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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jones

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Post Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Yes I can't wait to see the new borescope Mr Christopher has purchased
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mastersmith

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Post Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Old Diebold Safe

Rule of thumb on where the drive cam is located. If the wheel pack is hand change, the wheels will usually be mounted to the lock cover. When you remove the cover they will then be in your hand, and the drive cam will still be in the lock body. Which would be closest to the dial. If the wheel pack is key change, then the wheels are usually mounted in the lock body and the drive cam is farthest from the dial. There are exceptions to this, as I said " rule of thumb".
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin

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