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Oldfast Impressions

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:37 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Daggers wrote:....and the keys work really smooth! I've used factory cut keys that aren't as smooth as these.
:hbg:

Happy they made it safe & sound... and even happier to hear you like em'.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Location: Michigan

Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:54 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

So generously sent to me by Caveman! Thanks so much.
You've given me my first experience with an ASSA



Image
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:57 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

AMERICAN LOCK 747
w/ restricted keyway

pins: 6 . . . . blank: modified AM6


The restricted keyway varies little from the standard American keyway though.
The only difference is the warding on the right; round rather than square.
So just rounding out the milling on the AM6 blank allows it to enter.

Image

Quite some time ago, I attempted to impression this with no success. I finally decided to give it another
go yesterday. But this time around I wanted to optimize my wiggle room. So, I excessively expanded
the milling, and also took my round file to either side of the blade where it meets the bow.

Image

Mission 'maximize wiggle room' accomplished. This time around I was
able to obtain fairly definitive impressions throughout the entire process.

Image

Also thought I'd snap some pics throughout the process of how I come to a more factory looking key.
Once I have a working key, I grab another blank and clamp the two together with some small vice grips.

Image

Obviously, I was a little more conservative when expanding the milling on this final key.

Image

Placing all this in the vice leaves me with both hands free for a more refined touch.
To create the flats and angles, I switch to the knife edge of a pippin. I also use a
small flat file here and there when needed. Creating the second key takes me
far less time than it use to... but still far more time than I'd like it too. lol

Image

Image

At this point, the key still normally requires a bit of tweeking before it works smoothly.
A quick 'bind & tap' will indicate what bittings are still slightly high. Or ideally, the
lock can be disassembled. With the plug out and the keypins in it... I can simply
insert the key and I'm able see exactly what bittings still needs to be adjusted.

Image

One area I'd still like to improve upon is the the bottom of each bitting. The flats are still
ending up a little wider than I'd like. They could probably be nearly half this width.
The narrower I make these flats, the more gradual the the slopes can be.

Image

THANKS SOUR!
Last edited by Oldfast on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Sargent Mossberg
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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

NICE! What do you use to mill out the groove in the key? Also, what are the 2 pin-looking things in the cylinder?
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Awesome! I bet NNFAK has a certain ASSA that he would LOVE to have a key for. :lol:
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:54 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

@Riy: so do I.

Hey, Oldfast... Want to try an ASSA Twin 6000? You kinda might need to make a blank, too. :whip:

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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jj lock service

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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:31 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

amazing work
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xeo

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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:38 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

That key looks like it was cut on a machine. Nice.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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NNFAK

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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:40 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Riyame wrote:Awesome! I bet NNFAK has a certain ASSA that he would LOVE to have a key for. :lol:


I almost got the damn thing open the other night...
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:34 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

jeffmoss26 wrote:NICE! What do you use to mill out the groove in the key? Also, what are the 2 pin-looking things in the cylinder?

Too funny you eyed those pins Jeff, but it doesn't surprise me lol. I'm glad you did though.. I was thinking of posting a pic of it along with some questions. The pins are dual purpose; they retain the plug in the core, and also create a rotational boundary (noon - 3). I may be missing something, but they appear to be permanent?! I cannot remove the plug, nor can I rotate 180 to reach the rekey holes to drop the keypins. Maybe this is some type of 'oldschool' American core? This is the second time I've run into one. The first one I found was in an old Series 600 from 1977. And this 747 was made in '92. I'd like to be able to get them apart... but I dunno :/

On expanding the milling, I used a couple small hobby files. One of them is in the picture, the other was a kinda odd shaped one.

NNFAK wrote:
Riyame wrote:Awesome! I bet NNFAK has a certain ASSA that he would LOVE to have a key for. :lol:


I almost got the damn thing open the other night...

Forgive me as I'm not real familiar with ASSA. On those peanut cylinders... is there something I should know?
I'm still hoping to be able to help Mathias, but I was assuming it's just a regular pin tumbler lock.
I mean, are there any secondary locking mechanisms? How many pins? Are they :barrel:
Any links of gutshots or previous posts done on these?


@Gordon.... :shock:
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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rai

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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

not sure what old lock this was, but a core holding rotation restricting pin was once common on some padlock I vaguely remember from the old days, the pin actually was down in the hole beneath the the open end of the shackle, it could be stuck from whatever old graphite and oil or whatever was in there, but you removed the screw that held it in place and just smacked the lock on the bench to get it to move out of there.
I hope that helps,
there were also some old locks for aluminum frame glass commercial doors, you can still see those things around in old places that were never upgraded, these were called peanut cylinders, miniature mortise cylinders mostly replaced by adams rite and kawneer hardware now, these peanut cylinders had no anti shim flange on the front of the core.
these locks are insecure in many more ways, a burglary gang in sanfrancisco was pulling them out like nails, they were using a very large end cutter, thats a wire cutter made for heavy stuff like barbed wire, chain link and concertina,
they modified the jaw of the thing by grinding the cutting end so it had a curved cutting area that could go over these cylinders and grip the cylinder then they just pulled the mortise peanut cylinder like a big nail by pinching it and levering it down like a nail puller that is levered rather than straight pulled.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:52 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

rai wrote:...not sure what old lock this was, but a core holding rotation restricting pin was once common on some padlock I vaguely remember from the old days, the pin actually was down in the hole beneath the the open end of the shackle, it could be stuck from whatever old graphite and oil or whatever was in there, but you removed the screw that held it in place and just smacked the lock on the bench to get it to move out of there...

lol... I remember my first encounter with the type you speak of. Really threw me for a loop, till Riyame set me straight.

But removing the core from this 747 isn't the issue. My question is in regards to the core itself.
Can the plug be removed from the core? Its' design seems permanent to me... but I'm not sure.
Take a look at the 7th pic down, the core in the background. If need be, I'll take another picture.
Note the two pins that protrude from the back of the plug. Have you seen cores like this before?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Location: Canada

Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:05 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

On the American 747s they are a real PITA to take apart. You have to remove the shackle to take out the sliding bottom cover. Under the shackle spring is a steel plug that fits into a hole in the sliding cover that locks it into place.

And those 2 pins in the plug face are actually just for drill protection. The pin in the back in the side of the cylinder that stops the rotation needs to be pulled out to rekey the lock.

Lol, I was about to submit my message and you posted yours just before so I had to edit things a bit :P
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
<<

Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Lemme take a couple pics. I think we're all looking at different things here. lol

But you're right... it was a bit of a pain to disassemble it. In fact, when I went to put it
back together yesterday... I had somehow reversed the direction of the key.
In other words, lock and unlock are now opposite turning directions. lol

The question is... can the plug be removed from the core. The 2 pins at the rear of the
plug seem to be permanent. I cannot push them in or pull them out. I'll get a couple of
close-up pictures... instead of looking at it in a fuzzy background.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Are you referring to pins on the back of the American plug like these:
Image

Image

Image

If so, you are imagining them, Mike. They don't exist. :razz:

It looks like at least the one in the top of the keyway may be able to be pressed out, but think it is intended to be permanent. It may be possible to remove that top one, then the plug would turn enough to go 180, allowing rekeying. Will go try it and keep you posted. Have a couple of these plugs in my American/Master repinning kit.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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