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Today I got a Bogota pair in the mail (thanks Rai!).

They blew my mind. Way better than I expected in every sense.
I already had a Southord Pagoda set, so I thought I would make a brief comparison between them, so everyone who isn't sure about what to choose may have those doubts vanished.

First of all, here's the pair:


Being in Europe, Rai was kind enough to make them with the tips pointing down. I found out it works great on regular locks anyway. Will get to that on the video.

So here's a comparison of the sizes between them:


So first of all, the Pagoda's don't have that beautifull handle. That handle is to make you not apply too much force on the pins. And the way it's designed, helps you a lot with the raking motion. I use 3 fingers to hold them, 2 bellow, 1 above, and wiggle them while inserting and removing the Bogota from the lock. Always with very light tension, these picks almost work by themselves. On the Pagoda's that movement is far more complicated.

Here's a detail:


As you can see, The Pagoda's are bigger, less polished and not as rounded as the real deal. That for itself says a lot.
It also means they don't go in so easily on the locks and don't move so well inside. That combined with the restriction of motion without the special handle, makes them way less effective.

On the following video, I pick 2 locks that I can't use the Pagoda's properly in them, as the keyways are a little restricted:


So this is just a small comparison, but I think it speaks a lot for the Bogotas.
They are definantly worth it. And don't think that the price on the Pagoda's is worth it because of all the other picks in there. You can get them individually really cheap on Southord, and you won't be needing the Double Hump and so on. You only need a Triple and a Single Hump for the majority of the cases. So the only picks you would want to get from Southord are the Deforest and the Hook.

At least that's my opinion.

How to properly attach the pin&spring to the Bogotas?
It's something Rai taught me and apparently many people get it wrong (I'm still not sure if I got it right, so Rai, please step in ).
You need to hold the Bogotas together, using the smaller bent one inside the bigger one (you'll notice on fits above the other better). Then insert their tips into the spring, with the coil of the pin first. When it reaches the twist, grab only the spring and push it down. It will retract untill the pin passes the twist and then spring back to place. Force is not used, and if needed it means you are doing something wrong (I know in my video I appear to be using force. Well I'm not, I'm just holding it tight so it doesn't fly off my hands )


I hope to have taken some doubts. I'm really impressed with these, and having both, I definetly chose the real Bogotas. The Pagoda's are simple cheap rakes compared to these (and untill today, I used to like them...).

Thank you Rai!

The first Bogota style pick that I made came out rounded like the originals. It seems to be a by-product of filing and sanding the final shape by hand. (I would attach a photo but unfortunately the tip is broken off and still stuck in the nasty old grimy padlock that I should have left alone.)
There is no doubt that the rounded style runs in and out of the lock much smoother. The Southords, like all commercially made picks, are stamped out and flatter as a result. Still, the Pagodas are nicely finished and for me at least, did not require additional work. I find the Southord picks are excellent value for the money. At $5.39 each, if bought separately, you can buy the two Bogota style picks very cheaply. Even Sere's copies are $30 for two, and they are not nearly as well finished as the originals.
(I wasn't able to price the originals because Sere was out of stock on every model and so did not list the prices. This is frequently the case as the labour involved means long waiting periods.)

The Southord picks work well on virtually every lock except that odd pin combination that you encounter every now and then that must be SPP'd. For the price, and you can get the entire 9 pick set plus tension tools and fine leather case for $38.95, the Southords are a bargain. And they are always in stock. Southord's shipping is very fair as well. If you order 2 or 3 picks they will charge you only $2 postage (orders under $15). Finally, the stainless steel used by Southord, while not as strong as their thicker Max picks, is still plenty tough at 170,000 PSI, under normal use.

The negatives of the Pagodas are minimal. They are not quite as strong as the handmade Bogotas because they have a smaller edge profile and by definition are thinner. They will break if you are rough with them. Some people prefer the bent handles of the originals. And they don't carry as inobtrusively as the Bogotas.

Bottom line, for everyday use because they are inexpensive and available, go for the Southords. For the purists who want the best and to support the little guy, get an original set as well.

Escher,

Although I do agree that the Southord's aren't bad (yes, they do work well), for my experience they don't even approach the real ones.
The thing is that Rai's picks have slight details that miss in the Southord's. As far as the other copies I can't talk about them, as I've never tried them.

What I'm saying is, the Southord's feel and seem to be more of a regular rake (with it's particularities of course), and Bogotas are a whole other generation.´

As always, this is my personal opinion

I have never actually used the original Bogotas although I will get a set and evaluate them soon. But based upon what you and many others say, I am sure the originals are effective. My point is simply that the Southords are pretty good, cheaper, and readily available. Sere, on the other hand are always out of stock except for their copies, and if you can't get Rai's picks they aren't much use. (I don't blame him for the shortage although entering into what is effectively a commercial contract with Sere to produce them on a continuing basis probably put him under a lot of pressure.) I do know that my hand filed and finished three hump, resembled Rai's picks except for the standard handle and worked better than anything I have ever used. So I am a convert without ever having used the original product.

And so my conclusion, that Southords are cool for everyday use still stands. The others are special picks which are worth waiting for and using as you wish.

Ahh, yeah I see!

I agree that Rai's picks are outstanding in every respect. More than just the design, the quality of workmanship. We are talking Mercedes Benz vs. Yugo. Yes, the Yugo will get you from point A to point B, but there is a definite difference in quality and performance.

Gordon

Yugo?

Southord picks are well-made professional picks. The Yugo was a piece of junk. Chevy vs Mercedes maybe, but not Yugo.

fgarci , thanks for a very interesting post , wow those bogeys are a fair bit shorter than i guessed , need to make some more now !

I have not got much work done recently, seems a lot of things have blocked me, I intend to get to work today. really. and get some product out to serepick. Once Im back in the groove it should be regular production.
Thanks for the support Filipe, and Gordon.
And escher, I agree, best site ever

Rai

Yugo? it's an old crappy eastern european car

Yeah every person I asked speked in superlatives about the top quality and worksmanship of Rai's stuff. That means a lot!

well my experience with the pagodas are a bit different because after having a southord 22pc set for about 2 or 3 years i was more than happy to purchase a set of pagodas but after 2 months of having them and only minimal use the 3 peak one broke off so i was a pissed off more so because i wasnt really being heavy handed but i really did like the pagodas and found them really easy to use