Cutaway Difficulty

[jaypuck]

HI guys, new guy here. My girlfriend got me a really nice Sparrow set (the wizwazzle set I believe) of picks for Christmas, along with three cutaway practice locks: a standard, a spool cut, and a serrated. I've managed to pick the standard once with a combination of the city rake and a short hook, but i can't get it to pick again. It opens with the key, but feels a little gritty. Since its a cutaway, I can tell when I have the pins set but despite cranking on the tension wrench (or just giving light pressure) I can't get it to open again. I've read that cutaways aren't great for learning because you don't get a lot of feedback from the pins and I think I definitely understand. I've got a bid in on six practice locks (thanks to a tip from the Buy and Sale forum here, thanks again!) and ordered a small desktop vice which I think will really help. Are there any words of wisdom for working with cutawas, or should I just not even bother beyond using it to get visual confirmation once I move on to the other two types of pins?

[VancouverSpecial]

Hello jaypuck,

Welcome to the forums!

I am by no means an expert but I have had the fun of starting from scratch and working my way up - here are a few things that helped me along the way.

Regarding your Sparrows set of cutaways, I too bought a set and found them quite useful in learning how the internal components of a lock functioned and other beginner skills such as getting the tip of the pick on the end of each pin. For me, being able to visualize what was happening inside the lock was a crucial stepping stone. But, as far as using them for practicing I wouldn't put too much stock in them - I found the temptation to look at the pins too great, which distracted me from feeling the feedback from the lock itself, which is far more important.

For practicing, I found a set of progressively pinned lock cylinders to be much more useful. I think mine have 2,3, 4, 5, and 6 pins respectively. Start with 2 or 3 pins until that becomes too easy and then keep adding them until you can open 5 or 6 standard pins with ease. Then start all over again with security pins. While you're at it start mixing in locks with more difficult/constricted keyways than the standard schlage or kwikset and you will be well on your way.

You can also buy one of MrWizard's 'Super 7 Pin Practice Lock', which he sells on ebay - you can easily add or remove pins as you see fit. See this thread for details (or shoot him a pm):
http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=7972

Regarding surmounting your recent picking challenges, isolating the binding pin is one of the most fundamental skills to learn as a beginner and would probably help you out a whole lot. I still wrestle with it when attempting high security locks such as Assa. To that end I found the following beginner's exercise to be invaluable - see the 'other' forum here:
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=10677

Also, check out the excellent and free lockpicking guide written by a member named Solomon (password is evva3ks)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jacqueline.goff/sollybook/Lockpicking%20Detail%20Overkill.pdf

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress
Sean

[jaypuck]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. The set I've got a bid on is 3, 4, and 5 pin locks but I really like the looks of MrWizard's practice lock. Once my discretionary fund is recovered from Christmas I may have to pick one of those up!

[Oldfast]

Welcome jaypuck! I'm Mike. Good to have ya here.

Not much to add at the moment. I will just say that Sean made some great points.
And all three links he provided are good. Just read digital_blue's write up. Great stuff!

[MrAnybody]

Welcome jaypuck.

Welcome to the forum. You've definitely found a great place to be. Plenty of great guys here willing to share, bounce ideas around or help out.

And of course, feel free to rattle that keyboard and ask questions til yer fingers bleed, if necessary. Every day is a school day here. There's always something new or forgotten.

Also, drop by the Chat some time.

Look forward to seeing you around.

[Anarchy_won]

Welcome to the forum, I never pick cutaways.. well I did once but the feedback was so different.
pickup some cheap locks from the BST area or ebay when you get board you can trade/sell them to someone else who is newer then you and just starting out
it will keep the costs down some till you get hooked and start collecting locks

[Papa Gleb]

Sean did post some great stuff up there. The only cutaway I picked was the one I made and I only spent 10-15m on it to see whats going on inside after that I tossed it in the box and moved to locks. I realized that being able to see it, kills my feedback. Yes the ability to SEE kills the feedback not the lock itself. Remember if you loss one ability your others gain so once you can not see into the lock you mainly focus on feel which is what you need to master this art. Dont sweat whats already done and bought but I would recommend from this point just go forward with regular locks. You dont need practice locks or some special learning aids. You just need many many different locks to practice and you will pick something new up from each. Lastly, it sounds like you are under estimating your skills which is exactly what I did and if I wouldn't have had a lock full of security pins to pick and get it open I would probably still be practicing on master locks. Get yourself a high security hard lock and pick it. If you dont get it, put it down for a week or two and practice with more easy stuff then pick that hard one up again and repeat. In no time will you be surprising yourself. Hope this helps. I am a noob myself so I can relate and you did come to the right place. The gents here are superb all around and are so eager to help its amazing.

[VancouverSpecial]

Sean did post some great stuff up there. The only cutaway I picked was the one I made and I only spent 10-15m on it to see whats going on inside after that I tossed it in the box and moved to locks. I realized that being able to see it, kills my feedback. Yes the ability to SEE kills the feedback not the lock itself. Remember if you loss one ability your others gain so once you can not see into the lock you mainly focus on feel which is what you need to master this art. Dont sweat whats already done and bought but I would recommend from this point just go forward with regular locks. You dont need practice locks or some special learning aids. You just need many many different locks to practice and you will pick something new up from each. Lastly, it sounds like you are under estimating your skills which is exactly what I did and if I wouldn't have had a lock full of security pins to pick and get it open I would probably still be practicing on master locks. Get yourself a high security hard lock and pick it. If you dont get it, put it down for a week or two and practice with more easy stuff then pick that hard one up again and repeat. In no time will you be surprising yourself. Hope this helps. I am a noob myself so I can relate and you did come to the right place. The gents here are superb all around and are so eager to help its amazing.

Hi Papa Gleb,
That's excellent advice. I love the assertion that 'seeing' itself kills the feedback - very well stated.

Perhaps I might add that from a cognitive perspective, wherever we place our attention shapes how our brain perceives the world around us. If our focus is directed to one area we will miss things from other areas (whether within our visual field or other senses entirely like touch).

Take a minute and try this 'Selective Attention' test - see if you can count how many passes the white team makes - it's not easy so pay attention



Kind regards,
Sean

[jaypuck]

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice guys, much appreciated. I ended up winning the lot of 6 locks Sean posted about in Buy and Sale (thanks again, Sean) and my vice should be here today. I may stop by Lowe's and see if they have some cheap locks on clearance or something since the others won't be here for a week or so and I'm chomping at the bit to start picking something.

[Doogs]

I myself dove in headfirst and once I homebrewed a few crude picks and got the theory down from Solomons book proceeded to attack every lock I owned. Had gret success sith the normal Masters few Brinks and hardware store brands and a bunch of Weiser ad kwikset KiKs. I was slaying them all until an Abus 35/40 then the true challenge began. It took me 2 weeks or so on and off before I popped that lock. My advice trust your touch and pick everything you can get your hands on. Cheap locks are just that so spend your money on those before investing in all the other stuff. A few successes with those will get your confidence levl up and then you can progress onto the nasties.

[VancouverSpecial]

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice guys, much appreciated. I ended up winning the lot of 6 locks Sean posted about in Buy and Sale (thanks again, Sean) and my vice should be here today. I may stop by Lowe's and see if they have some cheap locks on clearance or something since the others won't be here for a week or so and I'm chomping at the bit to start picking something.

That's great news!
Glad I could help.
Sean